Welcome to Fatville: Burgers as big as dustbin lids, coffins that need cranes, and obese children having heart attacks - it is the supersized U.S. town causing Jamie Oliver such despair

no magz - a single barrel of DIET soda....

My favorite is someone ordering a side of beef burger, a bushel of fries and oh, a large diet soda. Yum.

I could never understand the people that order a Double Big Mac combo, have it supersized and then order a diet Coke with it.

IMO, diet soda is just as fattening as regular soda. Your body thinks it's sweet so it stores fat just like it would with regular soda. Unless of course you're a person that just has a soda now and then, but those who drink 3 cans or a 2 liter bottle of diet soda everyday, well your body is calling bu!! sh!t on that. You just can't fool your body like that.

Sorry Soph,

I have so many friends that are overweight that only drink diet coke day in and day out. Not one of them has lost a pound. I worry about the chemicals they ingest and what effect it has on their bodies. It's kind of like butter and margarine. I will only eat butter, I've been told that margarine is just one chemical away from plastic. If you put out a tub of butter and a tub of margarine, flies won't go near the margarine, but they'll go to the butter.

I don't know if it's the lack of excessive or the horrible things we eat disguised as food that's making this the first generation that won't live as long than that of one it follows. Possibly it's both.

Oh. Could you top the cow in a bun with a pig and a wheel of cheese? No, not Swiss, American cheddar nitwit. How much high fructose corn syrup is in the hot fudge sundae? Iowa? Score!

I swear there's high fructose corn syrup in a carrot these days. If there isn't, there soon will be.

Soph-

Its because the sweetener in Diet Coke really is addictive. It's really like liquid crack. It has the same effects on your body and thats what you get used to. Thats why Diet Coke drinkers hate drinking other diet drinks. They don't use the same stuff so it tastes like crap.

You might want to keep some aspirin or some sort of a pain reliever handy because you will probably get a headache when you don't get the sugar/caffeine fix. I'll beat Lola to it---stay away from artificial junk, sweeteners included.

Soph, I don't know anything about ribena but honey's a good natural sweetener. I make the best banana bread with honey. Yum!

When I swore of sugar I was a raging bitch for two weeks (I know it's hard to believe lol) and my husband would say, "go have a coke, cookie, some ice cream or something. But once I got past it my sugar cravings it got a lot better.

I drink coffee so I still get my caffeine fix.

mkay. just threw out the diet soda. but, whoa, whoa, whoa! you can't just mention banana bread made with honey and not share the details! =P

Substute the sugar with honey and add an extra banana. It's really moist banana bread, just the way I like it, and so do the kiddos. Yum!

thanks! local grocery store just sold out to a bigger chain and today is the last day before the big switchover. LOTS of organic fruits/veggies/meats on sale. going to pick up extra bananas. :) mmmm....banana bread!

Soph-

They had a article here in NC about how people get hooked on it. The subject was a lady who went to Mickey D's at least 3-4 times a day and got 32 oz Diet Cokes. (they are $1) A girl in my office even drinks them for breakfast. At least the ones with the vitamins in it. She also would eat a 20 piece McNugget combo-supersized. I didn't know they sold 'em, until I saw the receipt

Oh yeah. A 20 chicken McCoop for the wife with a tub o' Honey Mustard! *Sweetie, do we have enough money left for our insulin shots?*

magz-

she would get ranch dressing to dip fries in. I couldn't eat 10 nuggets and I'm a guy.

Btw--that combo is 1600 calories w/o drinks.

I am switching to water with maybe a sugar free concentrate like ribena -

I think splenda is way better for you then that aspertame crap if you had to pick between the two evils. More natural splenda from what I hear.

I love Splenda. Splenda is actually about the same calories as sugar but it is many many times sweeter so you use far far less.

Fortunately, now starting to see food products ditching high-fructose corn syrup and touting it on the label (case in point - a bag of English muffins!) as they did trans fats before - what's next on the hit parade? ;-)

I could never understand the people that order a Double Big Mac combo, have it supersized and then order a diet Coke with it.

I've often thought the same thing!

A futile attempt to limit the damage!

(Btw, there are also other aspects to healthy eating involved here besides merely calories. Many nutritionists feel that artificial sweeteners aren't to good for general health either..)

In terms of chemicals, I was watching America's Test Kitchen yesterday and learned that a preservative used in many brands of frozen shrimp is also used in machine work and toilet cleaners. I will be double checking my frozen shrimp labels...it was sodium something that starts with a "P."

I think what you are talking about Jones is Sodium Triphosphate.

If anyone is trying to stay away from refined sugars, you can also try Stevia. It's made from the stevia plant.

Lola - I'm with you!

I have so many friends that are overweight that only drink diet coke day in and day out. Not one of them has lost a pound. I worry about the chemicals they ingest and what effect it has on their bodies. It's kind of like butter and margarine. I will only eat butter, I've been told that margarine is just one chemical away from plastic. If you put out a tub of butter and a tub of margarine, flies won't go near the margarine, but they'll go to the butter.

In my house we use real sugar, real butter, real fruit, real vegetables, everything as real as we can get. There are few canned goods in my pantry and no "convenience" foods like instant potatoes or stuffing.

Although my daughters are all slender, my husband and I could stand to lose a few pounds, but that's just due to overindulging in delicious, fresh, and yummy home-made meals. I don't think the pounds are due to what we eat, but how much we eat. We need to exert a little portion-control! :)

I think eating foods that are as close to the way they come out of a garden or a farm is the best way all around.

the fact that we classify this as an "epidemic" is what makes it so disturbing.

People don't go to bed skinny and wake up OBESE. There is NO "antibiotic" that "cures" Obesity.

That is a sure way to oversimplify it, dave.

Oh, the British are having a field day with this.

I don't know about that, considering Jamie Oliver went in to their schools to address the same issues a few years back. It's in a documentary called Jamie's School Lunch Project.

It is.

Hey, SR, you recently said that you're not employed and looking for work. Where are you wanting work, and what's your field? If I have any contacts in your industry or your area of the US (or where you're willing to move to, if that's an option), I'd be happy to try to put them together with you. I'm sure many of us here on NV would.

It is, hands down, the scariest show on television. Watching the kids' blank looks as he held up a tomato was terrible. It was worse than listening to the vitriolic attack of the radio host when Oliver stated he was trying to change the eating patterns to save lives.

Yeah the not knowing what a freaking tomato like you said.. let alone any other vegetables.. yet knowing chicken nuggets, pizza, and the works was a shocker. You see that one families freezer? Omg. Tostino pizzas and everything deep fried. Lol. I agree. That radio host guy is an @!$%#! So was that one elementary school lunch lady. Great show and I'm glad somebody is bringing this to light publicly. This excuse "it costs too much money for fresh food / help" is the biggest cop out ever. We going to pay for it later in medical costs if we don't. I rarely ate the food at school growing up. Middle School or High School. Was garbage just like on TV. Nothing's changed.

Holy cow. I haven't even heard of this show. Sounds like something everyone needs to watch at least once.

Daughter ran into an interesting thing at school. They had fresh apricots. A rarity. Two overweight girls sneered at them and said "WHat are those things?" Becki said "apricots. They're good". One of the other girls said 'I've never heard of them before. They look gross'. Beck was floored that Seniors in High School had never heard of an apricot.

That is pretty sad. Of course, the closest many kids come to eating fruit is canned fruit cocktail in heavy syrup so it's not really that surprising.

The line about fresh food costing too much goes right back to the Farm Bill and what we choose to subsidize. There's no way in any rational distribution chain an eggplant should cost more than a frozen hamburger patty, and yet, that's what we have. And the schools, strapped for cash and punished for any seeming extravagance, are squeezed into irrational behavior.

SR

The trouble is that we are so "liberated" that think that cooking is a sin, I know for my friends that drive them crazy because one of hobbies is to iron and to create recipes.

Use the slow cookers, ladies and gentlemen, get recipes from all around the world and see how fun is to make the kitchen a fantastic workshop.

But.....I don't want the government to dictate what we should eat or not.

Charity begins at home and some kind of food is making our gracious President very nervous, like using 2500 words to answer a simple question and he was defiant.

Wow, Det, you can turn anything into an attack on Obama.

I guess you are ignoring the work Michelle Obama is doing on getting kids to eat healthier?

I'm LOVING Jamie Oliver's Food Revolution! I can't wait to see each episode to see what happens next. It's scary and fascinating at the same time.

Even my daughters (19 and 22) were appalled that first graders didn't recognize tomatoes or potatoes. That shows that they aren't being fed those foods, not only in the school cafeteria, but at home either.

We think that eating fresh foods is actually cheaper than processed foods - not to mention healthier and tastier.

SR is totally right that we will pay for the poor diet later on in health care expenses.

SR is totally right that we will pay for the poor diet later on in health care expenses.

Thanks. Without a doubt we will. :/ Sad but true. My European friends have always been appalled on how we eat... and frankly.. my eyes are now opened as to why. That and having a 3 year old.... kind of helped too. Now its more personal. Problem is I have an EX who feeds my 3 year old junk @!$%# all the time and isn't much I can do about it... which.... really upsets me. I mean.. what mother at 1 years old.. gives there kids samples of diet pepsi, frosting, junk food, and everything else? I mean.. @!$%#ing really......

Or is that common? I got a royal bitch out for questioning that action. It was the whole "How dare you question the Mother speech...". *growl*

-SR

And people have to be honest about root problems of obesity. Is it because people don't have time to cook? Or is it just because convenience wins? Is it easier to buy food at school then to pack a lunch?

There are so many possible causes to things like this, from culture taken to extremes to complete lack of resources. And people *must* be honest, to both themselves and others. It really can be hard to tell yourself, "Yes I am fat and it is all my fault" but it needs to be addressed.

After a cardiac scare yesterday, I finally told myself things have got to change. I'm no Jabba the Hud but some of the junk in my trunk has got to go. It won't be easy but nothing worthwhile is. A coworker is a vegetarian and I'm hoping she will teach me some recipes to make the dreaded vegetables palatable. It is not that I eat too much it is that my diet is just not the pathway to getting healthier. All fast food is history for me and more water than soda is part of my game plan.

Hello, my name is Little Sure Shot and I am a carboholic.

They explore things a little on the show, but Oliver is so overwhelmed, it's hard to begin anywhere. The example family was handed a week's worth of groceries and a pile of simple recipes and apparently went and got take-out anyway. The school children were given a choice between a roast chicken dinner prepared by one of the world's greatest chefs and school cafeteria square pizza and most chose the pizza. This was after their morning meal of 'breakfast pizza'.

And Oliver's lunch of roast chicken, dressed greens, brown rice and an apple was criticized as possibly being unhealthy for not providing two servings of bread, something the pizza did by virtue of its huge, doughy crust.

The idea of what these people must call bread - white and full of HFCS and preservatives - is nauseating too.

Good luck Little Sure Shot!!

Little Sure Shot...

Just as an FYI, diets don't work. Don't get sucked in to one. Eating only certain foods will leave you unsatisfied and you'll eventually go back to your old ways of eating.

Back in the day when I was on a competitive gymnastics team (many, many moons ago)..our coach taught us how to eat right rather than diet. I'm still eating that way today, don't get a lot of exercise due to physical limitations and I'm 5'3", 110 lbs.

Here's the trick:

Breakfast like a King. Lunch like a Prince. Dinner like a pauper. Your metabolism is highest in the morning. That should be your biggest meal. No food at all after 7:00 pm and limit your caffiene intake to one soda or two cups of coffee daily. Lastly, try to get into the habit of chewing slowly.

If you do this, you don't have to worry about what you eat. Only how you eat it. You can still have a slice of that double cheese, deep dish pizza or strawberry cheesecake, your appetite will be satisfied and you'll be working with you metabolism instead of working against it.

Pat N - I agree with you about everything except the soda - all pop is bad . It puts a strain on your pancreas converting all that sugar - even one diet pop a week is too much ! This is why so many of us are borderline diabetic . Try to limit pop to your birthday or other special events . Drink lots of water and try swimming at least three times a week . If you eat after 7pm , just have an apple or some carrots . Good luck Little Sure Shot !

That's all good advice, Pat.

Pat, thanks for the advice. i'm going to start implementing it this week! my kids and husband eat well and healthy foods, but i'm the one running around like a chicken with its head cut off and never have the time to eat well or at the correct times. time for me to start insisting on eating with the brood, i think!

Thank you all for the input, it is much appreciated. I have found that if I eat breakfast, I want to eat all day long. I have decided to eat 6 very small meals and nothing after 8 pm except for a small bowl of Cheerios as a final snack, dry, as I like something to munch on while watching the late nite news and can make it last, Someone once told me that if you eat a green apple 30 mins before a meal, it curbs your appetite. Luckily, apples are the one fruit I do like.

I've recently changed my eating habits, modeled after something I saw on Good Eats--Alton lost 50 lbs eating nutrient-dense, rather than energy-dense foods. Every day, I have to eat fruits and veggies--carrots and leafy greens daily, nuts, green tea, whole grains.

At least 3 times a week, I have to have oily fish, avocados, sweet potatoes, yogurt and broccoli.

No more than once a week, pasta, red meat, dessert, alcohol.

On the never list is fast food, canned soups, convenience foods, diet foods and soda.

I'm not perfect and do include pasta about 3 times a week but have a tiny portion with lots of veggies on top.

My pants are already looser after 6 weeks of this. It helps that I love most of what I must have--avocados, sweet potatoes, broccoli, nuts? YAY! I have never had a taste for sodas, so that isn't an issue.

And I agree, stop eating by 7PM. I have inverted my eating....my biggest meal of the day is lunch and dinner is usually a salad. I try to eat smaller amounts ever couple hours. And I have learned that when I think I am hungry, if I go for a glass of water first, it often sates me.

I love to hear how people find healthy means of living....well, healthy! Helps to show that a shift in diet and mentality can bring about positive change, without actually "dieting" (which in my opinion leads to binging)

I've recently changed my eating habits, modeled after something I saw on Good Eats--Alton lost 50 lbs eating nutrient-dense, rather than energy-dense foods. Every day, I have to eat fruits and veggies--carrots and leafy greens daily, nuts, green tea, whole grains.

At least 3 times a week, I have to have oily fish, avocados, sweet potatoes, yogurt and broccoli.

No more than once a week, pasta, red meat, dessert, alcohol.

On the never list is fast food, canned soups, convenience foods, diet foods and soda.

I'm not perfect and do include pasta about 3 times a week but have a tiny portion with lots of veggies on top.

My pants are already looser after 6 weeks of this. It helps that I love most of what I must have--avocados, sweet potatoes, broccoli, nuts? YAY! I have never had a taste for sodas, so that isn't an issue.

And I agree, stop eating by 7PM. I have inverted my eating....my biggest meal of the day is lunch and dinner is usually a salad. I try to eat smaller amounts ever couple hours. And I have learned that when I think I am hungry, if I go for a glass of water first, it often sates me.

Congratulations! :-)

Btw, have you ever tried whole wheat pasta? It takes a little getting used to at first-- I didn't like it for a while but now eat only whole wheat pasta and I do like it. (Its helpful to put a really good tomato sauce on it).

The key to a lot of this is eating wehole foods in their natural stae. regular pasta is anot a whole grain, so that's why it shouldn't be eaten a lot. But whole wheat pasta ia a whole grain.

Btw a really great whole grain to try is Quinoa. You can buy it packaged or in bulk in health food stores. Boil it uncovered on medium heat for about 12 minutes. A nutty taste. Unusually high in protein for a grain. (There is also heirloom Quinoa which is red-- similar but has more fiber I believe).

I do like whole wheat pasta. The other modification I have is with wine, I like a nice moderate glass of red, and given its health benefits, I have one more than once a week. Same with a square of dark chocolate. Just a square, a taste is all I need and I figure the health benefits make it OK.

I think my biggest help has been the smaller portions. And I don't feel hungrier having eaten less. My biggest issue is with fruit. I hate the texture of most fruits--slimy, mushy, so I eat dried fruits or mix fresh in my yogurt or in a salad and chew quickly.

Plus, I try to walk 3 miles a day and walk all my errands, since I don't have a car. Once the weather calms down, I'll hopefully be back in the pool a couple times a week, my complex is one of the few in San Francisco with a pool.

Love red Quinoa...melds especially well with vegetarian meals-cashew butter, lime, and honey;cucumber, onion, etc...mmm, mmm, good....

Love red Quinoa.

I would have to agree. There's something about the taste...

I started eating a while back for a number of reasons. One problem I have is I have to control myself-- otherwise I eat too much of it! (I think you have a point there-- for some reason the taste really goes well with many other vegetarian foods-- they mutually enhance each other's tastes).

i've never seen Quinoa. the closest we have to whole grain pasta here is Healthy Harvest at the grocery store - and i'm still not convinced of anything healthful in that box. does anyone make their own pasta? i got a stand mixer for Christmas and i'm looking at one of those pasta attachments. i would REALLY love to get into the habit of making as much food as possible out of the freshest ingredients. i wonder how hard it would be to make my own whole grain pasta?

i've never seen Quinoa. the closest we have to whole grain pasta here is Healthy Harvest at the grocery store - and i'm still not convinced of anything healthful in that box.

I believe "Healthy Harvest" contains a mixture of both whole grain and non-whole grain. 100% Whole grain is better.If I remeber, some of the major popular brands in supermarkets have many non-whole grain products, but also have 1 or 2 that say "!00% Whole Wheat" as well.

does anyone make their own pasta? i got a stand mixer for Christmas and i'm looking at one of those pasta attachments. i would REALLY love to get into the habit of making as much food as possible out of the freshest ingredients. i wonder how hard it would be to make my own whole grain pasta?

Sounds like a great idea. I've never done it, but apparently many people do-- I've seen pasta machines and attachments for sale in many places. Probably healthy and fun to make.

From watching cooking shows, pasta seems fairly simple to make...flour and water with an egg or two.

I do most of my shopping at Trader Joe's, where most of the products (even the frozen, premade stuff) are preservative and scary-ingredient free and there are lots of organic choices. And it's cheap.

I do most of my shopping at Trader Joe's, where most of the products (even the frozen, premade stuff) are preservative and scary-ingredient free and there are lots of organic choices. And it's cheap.

I do too.

But I also shop for some things at Whole Foods. They do tend to be more expensive, but sometimes their own brand is cheap. And I there are some things that where the ingredient list of the Whole Food product is better.

I've found deals at Whole Foods and their ice cream selection is awesome.

inoubliable -

does anyone make their own pasta?

Yes. And if you have kids, this is, without a doubt, 100 times more laughter inducing than making cookies....and healthier, too!

Now, some possible side effects...flour and/or dough on the ceiling fan. The important thing here is to explain that no matter how hard they try, a 3 - 4 foot tall child cannot toss pasta dough like "pizza dough" when the ceiling fan is only 7 feet from the floor...

thanks, Krishna and Jones. i'll be looking at Trader Joe's. we do have one of those in our city, not a Whole Foods, though. might have to look for the closet one of those.

Dave, thanks, too. the kids will love it, i'm sure. any time they can get in the kitchen and make the biggest mess possible is a good day! lol.

Keep your eyes on the stand mixer at ALL times....4 cups of flour with the mixer on HIGH will cover every square inch of you kitchen...as well as the poor dog who was just drinking water....which is now paste...

ah. just like making sure the top is on the blender when kids are making smoothies. gotcha. =P

If done by hand, you'll get quite the workout kneading the dough before it's ready for the pasta attachment on the various devices....

here's a pretty decent and simple recipe

thanks, Peter! that looks wonderfully easy! printed it all off and making spaghetti tomorrow!

My pleasure!

Budget a good bit of time for your first Trader Joe's visit. They are not the standard grocery store, you'll find staples at great prices, but also every sort of nut and dried fruit, healthy frozen entrees, lots of breads, cheap and good pies and cakes, all sorts of produce, wines, cheese of every variety. It's a small store but overwhelming. I often see tourists at the one near me, marveling.

Today, I went in for cat food (they carry a tuna cat food that my two are nuts for) and came out with buffalo chicken meatballs with blue cheese, a decent size can of fresh crab, frozen scallops, two great loves of bread--fresh from an in-town baker, vanana yogurt (the house brand, banana/vanilla mixed, divine!), two refrigerated salads and a papaya the length of my forearm and a couple other things for just under $50. Not bad.

Trader Joe's? Where are they located?

Trader Joe's website.

They are in most states, I think. We have 3 in San Francisco proper :)

Apparently none here in Utah, but an interesting link with recipes and more...thanks!

woo! nice! i can't wait to hit the one here tomorrow. i've been meaning to get over there for some time now but i can't stand battling the traffic. lol. someone said that a lot of their stuff is here today, gone tomorrow sort of stuff because they typically buy locally. how true is that? should i plan to stock up on something if it turns out i love it and it's not one of the "staples"?

Peter, http://www.traderjoes.com/stores/index.asp

Just signed up for their newsletter...

I think they have gotten better at stocking products they know they can get regularly, but it does happen...I had just become addicted to their frozen cheese souffles (they came in a bag of frozen little disks that I then heap into a ovenproof dish and bake) and they are gone. But that seems to happen less frequently than before.

And yes, the Two Buck Chuck is a good everyday wine--and $2! (I think the price may have gone up). Good for cooking, too. And their stock of premade Thai and Indian foods are great.

They have little booklets (called Frequent Fliers) touting new and featured products and every week their new products are updated on the website--they show 3 or 4 new items every week.

ah. okay. i'll just have to check in regularly, i think. i'd just gotten into the habit of hitting the grocery stores about 3-4 times each week so i'm getting more fresh produce and poultry/fish rather than doing a week's worth of shopping on a Friday morning. so i can swing by TJs 3-4 times each week, too. Two Buck Chuck sounds good to me! and more than half the price of the Sutter Mills i've been getting!

i also signed up for a newsletter. and rumor in town is that they're planning some sort of sidewalk/tent/sale/open house/thing in a few months. not sure what's going on but a few people who work there were telling people in town about it. something about a community cookout, recipe swaps, and local farmers and chefs there to talk to customers. if this is true, i think it's a really cool idea!

I like that idea! I tend to not get much produce there (salad greens, exotics like papayas and packaged salads only), just because we have a great farmers' market not far away.

I love how friendly the staff is, too. They actually chat and love to give recommendations and comment on how good something is as they scan it, unlike the Safeway I go to, whose cashiers act shocked when I try to make conversation (mostly, there's one woman who has been there as long as I have been in SF who is great).

wines,

Trader Joes own brand of budget wine (there are several varieties), at $2.99/bottle is quite drinkable-- equivalent in quality IMO to wine you buy in other places at $8+/bottle. An amazing bargain!

I make pasta. But I just have the old fashioned hand crank. I use semolins flour though, so the kneading isn't bad. You don't want to overwork pasta dough, as it becomes too tough.

thanks for the tip, Gwen. going to look for the semolins flour at Trader Joe's tomorrow. thought about making two batches. one in the bread maker (i seem to remember a function on that to make pasta dough) and one with the mixer while i make a third by hand. just to see which one comes out best.

no problem. semolina is like a very fine corn meal texture; excellent for pastas!

We have Wild Oats here and a Trader Joes.... and then a Portland area only chain called New Seasons.. which puts the other two to shame.

Kim -

I have to wonder why the town's doctors and civic leaders haven't gotten together to help their community understand its problems and overcome them.

I have family in the health insurance industry. They say that doctors are nothing more than pill pushers for the pharmaceutical companies nowadays. They don't really care to cure anyone, but they just prescribe medicine to eliminate symptoms. Maybe that's why the town's doctors haven't done anything.

Have you ever been in the waiting room when a pharmaceutical rep comes in with their little black bag on wheels? They just waltz right in without so much as a glance at the people waiting. In there doling out their little samples of this and that. It makes my blood boil.

NHS - I assume is National Healthcare something? So you have socialized medicine already? I'm not up on the UK. How is that working out?

President Obama is dragging America - kicking and screaming, I might add - towards Socialized Medicine. It's a huge issue as you probably know.

I lived in Tokyo for awhile, socialized medicine seemed to work pretty well there but the facilities I went to all seemed like they hadn't had anything new since 1959 - and I was there in the early 1990's.

German friends of ours living in Germany said the socialized medicine there was horrible and the only way to go was to buy private insurance for tons of money. You could actually get seen by a doctor without waiting for hours or days if you were a private patient.

Anyway you look at it, it's a mess.

Yeah, it's not like they are great examples. I think America needs to stop enabling each other and start bringing the harsh facts of obesity to light. At the end of the day, it's the obese person who keeps making the unwise choices, not the soda companies, not the fast food industry, not Kraft...

I know plenty of people who can chow down on Chic-fil-a on Saturday and eat healthy the rest of the week. Moderation and portion control are lost in America in a narcissistic effort to blame someone else for your unwise choices. As if you could do no wrong.

Until this behavior is changed, America's waistline won't.

Moderation and portion control are lost in America

You said a mouthful (pun intended)

The portions we cook for ourselves in the US and the one's restaurants feed us are astronomical compared to other countries.

Pat,

I don't go to restaurants that often but I don't want to pay $40+ for a 2"x2" piece of salmon for example and few decorations with fennel.

If one does not want to eat a rather large portion could ask for a box and in a fancy restaurant read first the menu in the internet.

To me, the issue of nourishing ourselves touches on the issues of pesticides, petroleum-based fertilizers, family vs. factory farms, local vs. shipped, etc. It just goes on and on. The reasons to buy locally grown healthily raised food just keep growing.

Plantains are cheap and make a delicious soup that's filling.

To me, the issue of nourishing ourselves touches on the issues of pesticides, petroleum-based fertilizers, family vs. factory farms, local vs. shipped, etc. It just goes on and on. The reasons to buy locally grown healthily raised food just keep growing.

It's all linked. I'm glad there is a growing awareness starting in this country. It's been a long time coming!

I graduated from high school at 5'5" 130 lbs. After my freshman year, I was at 5'10" 150 lbs and I stayed that way for many years. I moved to Asia and stayed in good health just by eating good food (and yes, having a hamburger or pizza once a week to remind me of home) and taking buses and walking (no, I wasn't in the military, so no exercise from that).I did drink a ton of soda in Asia.

Then I moved back to the States and ballooned up to 190 lbs. within a couple months, just from sitting in my car to go places and eating larger portions. Over the past 6 months, I'm still not getting enough physical activity, but just by cutting out soda and ice cream completely and eating at home (dumplings, stir-fried vegetables, home-cooked Chinese food, etc.) and I've dropped 20 lbs. without even trying. If I could get off my lazy rear, I'd probably drop another 20 and be in moderately good shape again. In fact, heck with it, I'm going for a walk right now.

Good luck. I do not eat any sort of refined sugar and try to avoid anything that has any sort of sugar in it (honey is OK), also try to avoid any sort of refined flour. Other than that all I can credit it to is good genes because I really don't pay a lot of attention to the whole thing. I also don't drink milk.

I also don't drink milk.

Do you avoid dairy all together or just milk?

Just milk to drink, I still cook with it. Humans are the only animal in nature that continue to drink milk after they are weaned. Plus, the milk you by in the store is closer to a chemical product. If you put raw fresh milk out it will sour, but store bought milk just rots. I read somewhere that there is a correlation between the introduction of homogenised milk in our diet and the increase in the cholesterol problem. Mostly I avoid milk because I don't like the taste of it.

I don't drink milk either. That and I'm slightly lactose intolerant but cheese I'm all good with.

I started drinking Lactaid a couple of weeks ago and I wish that I did it before, I feel a lot better. I was having skim milk and still did not work.

I use the chewable tablets myself for like ice cream.

@ #13.4
There is a black market in raw milk. Its directly related to the alteration of raw milks' biochemical profile by pasteurization, i.e, its taste and the breakdown of heat labile nutrients, hence, the practice of *fortifying* pasteurized milk with Vitamins A and D. Refinements of pasteurization, higher heat in much shorter time (ultra-pasteurization), tries to resolve this.

Pasteurization is considered essential in a mass market system, raw milk commerce is possible only in a local context, i.e., the cow's health has to be ensured and delivery of the product much more immediate than the mass market model, which makes raw milk more expensive because the supply is inherently limited. Consumption regulated by supply.

Bought some raw milk from a farmer once. He took us all through his operation and how he did stuff and then told us he had to sell his milk as dog food because of the laws it was considered unfit for human consumption. First real milk I had tasted in a long time and if I could find something like that again, I might take up drinking milk once in awhile.

I was just sitting here wondering----how big is this News vine thing really? I know I have run across a few people that live on farms of one sort or another, and a lot of people that are into the idea of home grown food and meat. Might there not be some way to form some sort of a newsvine co op to buy stuff through the mail?

Camel milk is sweet and healthy.

Almond Milk: non dairy and delicious (and comes in Vanilla also!)

Atsidi

Like you I haven't changed much since high school. I wore (Levi's) waist size 28 when I was 18 and wear a waist size 29 now at 43 (just turned 2 weeks ago). I eat a simple vegetarian diet and never, or rarely ever, get sick. I NEVER drink soda!

hey Planet, quick question. i'd like to start incorporating some vegetarian meals - i keep hearing how kids who eat vegetarian diets are usually healthier than their peers. my oldest has lupus and the other two are photo sensitive. the doctor mentioned vegetarian meals to help with the vitamin D (?) deficiency since they can't be in sunlight for long. any idea on a good place to start looking for vegetarian meals that are high in vitamin D?

Vegetables that provide Vitamin D

hmmm....that site lists only mushrooms as a source of vitamin D - as far as fruits and veggies go. i guess the doc either knows something not on the list or doesn't know a thing? *sigh* back to looking for supplements, i suppose.

inoubliable,

This Dr. has done a lot of research on Vit. D. You might want to read some of his articles. I tend to eat a lot of fresh vegetables and spend time out doors. "Vitamin" is a bit of a misnomer, as it is not a vitamin but a hormone and can usually be found in animal products. Fish, especially the tails, are high in vitamin D as is Cod Liver Oil. The problem with capsules of Cod Liver Oil is that they are extremely high in Vitamin A as well so there is a possibility of Vitamin A toxicity where there doesn't seem to be any with Vitamin D. I buy supplement (Duane Reade has them much cheaper than Whole Foods!) and, like I said, spend a lot of time out doors. I realize that your child can not do this. :(

You may find some additional natural help for lupus here. I do the apple cider thing every day as well as de-flouridate my water with borax (20 Mule Team). Pay attention to ANYTHING Ted has to say! If you cruise around on that website, you'll find more and more information by him and his background. That is one of my favorite websites! I like this one, too as well as this one with simple recipes (you can always mixed it up later). If you've got a computer, and you do (!), your resources are unlimited for vegetarian meals and planning. It's fun to get lost in all the recipes! :) I also have a couple of good cookbooks.

Also, just so you know, I'm not vegan but lacto-ovo vegetarian. I still use dairy and eggs in cooking, just not any form of meat.

Peter Faden,

Nice resource! I'm bookmarking that one. :)

Thanks lmp! Yeah, Vitamin D is tough to come by on a strictly vegetarian diet, although portabellas are often a staple...i prefer a piscatarian diet personally...

whoa! TONS of info here! thanks a million! reading through it all now. the borax thing is giving me the heebie jeebies a bit, though. need to read more on that one.

inoubliable,

Also try the Whole Foods website. You'll see a search box at the top of the page I have linked. Type whatever vitamin or mineral or ingredient you want in there and information, including an option for recipes, will pop up. That is actually the site I wanted to include for recipes. It's really fun to read the information pages on all the different foods. Enjoy!

the borax thing is giving me the heebie jeebies a bit, though.

It did me at first, but it is an essential mineral...increases your libido. :)

Peter,

portabellas are often a staple

Agreed!

Vegetables that provide Vitamin D

A while back there was fear of overdosing-- almost all multivitamins contained 400 IU of vit D. For a while now the thinking has changed, and many nutritionists suggest supplementing with 1000 IU or more-- some multivitamin formulas now contain 1000 IU. (Regular milk and most soy milk has 400 IU/qt added). Need depends upon several factors-- one of the main ones being exposure to sunlight as our bodies can manufacture it. If you want to be a perfectionist, you can have your D3 levels checked in a blood test. Some people supplement with 2000 IU or more if they live in northern climes , in the winter.

Vegetables that provide Vitamin D

THE SUN.

well, sunlight works well for hubby and myself. but my oldest has lupus. exposure to sunlight, and we've never been able to figure out how much is too much, can bring on flares. and the younger two are photo sensitive - if they're out longer than 10 - 15 mins they get horrible hives and blisters on any part of their body that is exposed. we did try some sunlamps once on the advice of another doctor - he said that they weren't quite as powerful as the sun but the younger two broke out within 10 mins.

all three are lactose intolerant, so milk with added vitamin D doesn't help either.

i'm always up for some new alternative. maybe there's a brand of soy milk out there with added vitamin D and i just haven't seen it yet.

Almond milk-lactose free and abundant vitamin D (and my personal fave!)

Ever had chocolate almond milk, Peter? Tastes like a chocolate covered almond.

almond milk? it sounds delicious! chocolate almond milk?? now, you're just being cruel! my list for Trader Joe's just got longer...

Yes, although i prefer vanilla-goes great with my Wheaties!!!

Bought some raw milk from a farmer once. He took us all through his operation and how he did stuff and then told us he had to sell his milk as dog food because of the laws it was considered unfit for human consumption. First real milk I had tasted in a long time and if I could find something like that again, I might take up drinking milk once in awhile.

We buy fresh, raw milk every week from a local organic farmer. We buy it for pet consumption as well *wink wink.* So ridiculous that the government has to stick it's nose in that decision for a family. Anyway, this site: http://www.realmilk.com/where2.html can help you find a list of farmers in your area that sell real milk.

For me, higher level of activity (running, walking, basketball) and some changes in how i eat (only when i'm hungry and only until i'm no longer hungry) were effective in dropping from almost 260 to 190ish in about 14 months (i am 6'4").

One thing i know for sure is that you can't beat yourself up over weight issues...and you should never go to extremes. Don't do things that cause you to resent the changes you try to make. Just an nice simple approach often works best. Identify the things you wish to change, but start slowly...eventually your efforts will gain momentum.....and don't give up...nothing is easy to come by nor does it happen overnight. Change is a lengthy process, but ultimately, you'll find it to be rewarding.

i think that's the best advice, Peter, in looking to reduce your weight. since i can't take my kids outside for long periods of time, we were restricted to indoor activities for exercise. i'm not usually into the whole video game thing but we did get a Wii for christmas for the kids. lots of sports games on there and they're having a great time with being active in the living room and playing on teams.

The Wii is great! and quite interactive...truly a system for the whole family to enjoy!

...not to mention i can dork out at 3 am on some Super Mario Bro. 3 from the SNES days...haha

Lol...

I wonder if they have Pitfall for the Wii. I loved that game but never got it for my Atari (which I still have and it still works).

lol. idk. i only just figured out that it had WiFi. -.-

they have some Sega Genesis games on there. and some original NES stuff. Bubble Bobble ftw! kids are saying "uh...this looks...funny?" it looks like Nintendo is going to keep adding games. kind of fun to get one of those and be humiliated by a game that took you three mins to beat when you were nine years old. and they're only $5 or so.

awesome that you have a working Atari! we had one when i was much younger. it's probably in the attic somewhere...i might have to go look for that one day.

I am not a parent, but I share concerns that all have for our next generation.

I wish they taught cooking in schools. And simple stuff that everyone should know - how to plan and shop for your meals and household needs, balancing a checkbook, learning how to read a contract before you sign it, how to make a budget, basic first aid, simple house repairs, how to write a resume, how to plant a basic vegetable garden. Life 101.

But again, back to the topic - yes, people should know how to cook.

When I was in school, they called it home economics. Some of the guys even took it. Guess it went out the window with a lot of other stuff.

I have no idea what they teach in school anymore, but from what I have seen, common sense must be a non required elective.

I guess they want to teach the science rather than the practicality these days.

To be fair, there is a whole lot more information that students need to cram into their heads, especially in the science and math departments. Now, students have five classes of the "essential" subjects and room for one elective...and that elective is often a you-need-to-take-this-to-graduate elective.

Now, this isn't to say that these things shouldn't be taught, but it often gets shoved on the back burner in favor of things that are more college bound. When it comes down to it, colleges don't look at home ec classes. They look at Advanced Placement Biology and Calculus. My high school had a home ec class that I wanted to take, but it conflicted almost every semester with other classes that I *had* to take in order to graduate.

Ah, okay. That makes so much more sense then!

I think it still says something about our culture though, that common home economics are still pushed back so far. I'd like to see more common sense taught, but everything is so rushed and crammed already. A lot of people my age have information overload, so we do tend to weed out "common sense" when it comes down to it. (In a pinch though, most of us do have some sense!)

I don't think we have fuses on plugs here in USA. :P Least not places I been. Then again England has older housing. Since your a Brit... I've googled towns and stuff with city view. It seems like every neighborhood the houses looke the same... all brick... all dark colored.. or white.. or grey. Kind of dreary don't ya think? Of is not all towns like that? Is there any American style housing in UK?

Soph- friend's request accepted :)

I am so glad you made such a brave recovery from your heart attacks. That's scary.

Wow, are they selling the feilds to get $ for the schools or is it someone just getting rich? Many of the so called "extra ciricular" classes like PE, Music etc aren't funded here in the US. I know it varies form state to state and public vs private, but it's ridiculous. Yes if you are a jock you can get on a team, but if you are an uncoordinated kid like I was you would just end up on the bench. I did play some soccer and basketball, but again, we played at our local school gym and we walked 5 or 6 blocks there and back, plus I was an altar boy so I would walk to church and back, then later school and back. I can't remeber if we were allowed to bring bikes or not, but I can remember walking home and them either riding my bike back up to school to play and ride around the lots and feilds, or skateboarding. We also had to earn most of our own money, no allowance so we cut grass in summer and shoveled snow in winter! Sorry if I sound like the old coot saying we used to walk 6 miles in the snow uphill both ways to school, but it's true. I even see kids being driven around on halloween to go collect candy!

Every school gymnastics, soccer, etc. etc. team, every band, every debate club, every cheerleading squad, every EVERYTHING for schools has to be funded through fundraising, donations, etc. The kids sell those chocolate bars or Butter Braids, or they have a bake sale, or a car wash, or whatever. The things we grew up loving that enriched our academic experience are strictly off the books now.

In America, we SAY we love our children, but it's my opinion that that's hogwash. We don't properly fund their schools. Finding kids in falling-down ratty moldy schools without proper books, well-trained teachers, working computers, and only @!$%# that I wouldn't feed to a pig to eat for a nourishing lunch to get them to the end of the day - who did that? We did. We say "Lower taxes!" and this is the result. Our schools reflect our REAL priority - which is anything but our kids.

PE classes don't take place anymore in most schools due to lack of funds,

I don't buy that. I've never heard of such a thing. PE was mandatory from K-12th grade for me unless you got a waiver.

"Illinois is the only state that requires PE every day from kindergarten through high school" msnbc

SR, not sure how old you are but it's no longer a requirement, and if they do have PE classes many are 2 times a week averaging about 20-30 minutes/week. Many classes have been shortened and PE teachers let go due to the No Child Left Behind program. The classes if taught are taught by regular teachers not PE teachers and last for shorter durations then they used to.

It depends on your state too, some states have requirements.

You may not "buy" it but it's true. When I went to school we had PE every day for 45 minutes. My niece and nephew go to gym class 2 times a week for 20 minutes, the regular teachers rotate to teach the gym class. Some of the teachers let kids study or read instead of participating. And 20 minutes isn't enough time to get a game of any sort organized and going with smaller kids. They are trying to change it in some places and even the NIH is looking at it.

When I made my statement I was referring to the lack of actual PE classes like I had when I was a kid and the "gym class" the kids take now, and it is due to lack of funding!

I'm 26. That's shocking to me. Wow.

It was mandatory for me also...of course, by middle school, i was playing on school sports teams, so PE itself became a non-factor, what with 2 a days...

SR, I'm past 40 so that's why I asked. We had a regular teacher that taught things like weight lifting in our upper years and even through high school, now it's more like an unstrcutured recess then any actual education. hell they could even do it 5 days a week but do the workouts, excercise on 3 days and have 2 on nutriition!

God I feel really old now, thanks a lot!

i'm 30 and remember in the private schools that i went to we had PE every day. once i hit high school and public school, it was cut to three times each week. my oldest is still in the public school systems until we start back with home school this summer. his school's PE schedule? once a week. and they have some weird rotating system with other "arts". if they get a day out of school for any reason at all, PE is the day they cut as far as the "art" for that day. when they get back to school, they start the rotation all over again just as if they'd had PE the day before. PE in his school usually means they talk about the gym teacher's glory days at William and Mary or they bounce around some basketballs in the gym. PE for me meant a class room portion where we learned the rules of a sport one day and then spent the rest of the week outside playing! "free days" in PE meant crab soccer or dodgeball. and we HAD to participate. for this, and many other reasons, it's home school ftw.

I live in MD and have in son in 5th grade and another in 9th. In elementary school they have PE once a week and 15 min of recess everyday. In middle school they require PE everyday. In high school you have to take 4 semesters worth. I think parents just need to send their kids outside more. My mom would lock us out of the house Saturday morning and we weren't allowed back in until lunch. Then back outside until the street lights came back on.

I'm 37 and we had PE every day in grade school (K-8) and were very active at lunch/recess. In high school, PE was required freshman and sophomore year.

My mom teaches at a Fresno elementary school and they do not have PE.

i never even thought to ask my son what recess was like each day. (d'oh!) he said they don't have recess, really. apparently the kids are told to go to the gym after they eat to walk around a predetermined circuit. he says most of the kids just sit at the lunch tables and talk and the kids who do go to the gym sit around and talk in corners. they aren't allowed outside and the time they're supposed to be "walking" is actually just whatever time is left over in the lunch period after they eat.

Our recess and lunch was on the playground. Lunch we would be taken to the tables outside and eat, then we were free to race about for half an hour or so, or swing, or climb on the jungle gyms. 7th and 8th grade we did more sitting than playing as we were "too cool" for that, LOL.

Plus, we had hot lunch only once a week and it was a single menu--burgers one week, pizza the next. Pickles were sold separately and the only milk available was white milk.

In high school, it was mostly sitting and eating. There were hot choices each day, and a salad bar, but I remember only buying my lunch once or twice in 4 years. The seniors were allowed one day a week of "off-campus" lunch, which entailed racing to the parking lot and driving not very far, grabbing something fast food-like and racing back to campus as we still only had the 45 minutes everyone was given.

I'm 37 and we had PE every day in grade school (K-8) and were very active at lunch/recess. In high school, PE was required freshman and sophomore year.

My mom teaches at a Fresno elementary school and they do not have PE.

PE was also required when I was in school. But now, apparently, in many schools its not. (I think that this is just another factor contributing to the "obesity epidemic" amongst kids).

It is and we have No Child Left Behind to thank for it!

Speaking of recess we had Monkey bars and I think it must have been about a 20ft tall slide, all on asphalt!

It's amazing how we bay our kids today! Many are having VitD deficiencies due to the lack of time out doors!

We used to be able to walk down several blocks to the library on our own, no cell phones to keep in touch, and summers I lived at the pool! We had a family pass which the cost was pretty reasonable, I think 40-50$ and I would ride my bike up to the pool and spend the day there. I later got into a diving class and was pretty good, no Greg Lougainus, but I did OK!

Now it's tivo, wii (i know that some of them are athletic now but still you are inside all day? What kid doesn't want to be out doors?

It is funny how the world has changed...from "king" of the monkey bars, a pellet gun, a football, and an imagination to video games, tivo, and pale skin...

don't forget OVERWEIGHT.

Remember when we were kids? There were all of two or three kids that were bigger than the rest of us?

Yeah, most kids didn't ever have a chance to get overweight...in fact, if i was just hanging around the house, my parents would directly tell me to go out and find something to do or they would find something for me (and i didn't want that to happen!)....

When I was a kid, my mom worked as a zookeeper at the local zoo and I had the run of the place. I can't imagine any parent allowing that today. I'd go to work with her and then I was off to whatever corner of it I wanted to play in, from the critters in the nursery to the river rock areas meant to provide division of walkways but that made great pretend jungles. My freedom was complete, until I needed lunch money, LOL.

Or a friend and I would be dropped off at the waterslides for the day at 11AM, picked up at 5PM. During the school year, I'd often walk the mile home along a bike path in a quiet neighborhood. And this was in the mid to late 80s, not really THAT long ago.

As I was saying to my grannie the other night, I can barely imagine my 14 year old cousin taking her 3 year old sister to the park a few blocks from home on her own without worrying.

I'm 26 but was same way with me too... except me and my friends occasionally played the Nintendo or used the computer (still in its early stages in the 80's). Luckily for me had 2+ acres of forest and one hell of a tree house to play in out back. Tree house was so cool made the local paper's front page in the Home / Garden section. :) :) On stilts... a deck around it an adult can walk around.. railings.. 2 stories.. trap door.. draw bridge... stairs... suspension bridge... windows... incredible. A mini house in the air. Lol. Took a year to build when my Dad had the time. :) In fact.. I think I'm going to take photos of it.. just sucks its in bad need of TLC since haven't used it for so long of time. :( :(

you mean man vs food?

I love that show. My wife, kids and I all watch it, and talk about how gluttonous those people are. Now for a once in a lifetime contest, I can understand going for it. But people who eat like that every week---have no sympathy for them. Although I cannot throw stones--I had it BAD for Five Guys cheeseburgers.

MMmmmmmm... Fiiivvee Guyss Double Cheesebuuurgers with baconnnnn. mmmmmmm (In Homer Simpson voice)

I can't fathom how he eats that amount of food on that show. 5lb burritos? 150 oysters.... its disgusting. lol

I like Andrew Zimmerman and Bizarre foods.

That's good too. So is Anthony Bourdain: No Reservations. A favorite of mine! Some countries eat like kings compared to us!

True, they do but in a lot of cases, the reverse is true also.

And they have Guy Fieri going around eating lots of unhealthy diner food. Rarely does Diners, Drive-Ins and Dives feature salads.

Actually was a joke made in one of the episodes...regarding salad, that is.

That DJ makes me want to scream. I think he actively hopes Oliver fails, just so he can say "I told you so." Truly pathetic.

My family every year has a huge garden in the backyard. Half is the garden.. half is lawn. The freshness is amazing and saves us a bundle. We often has so much we give / sell a little to most the neighbors. It's great. All it takes is a little time and care and you can have some kick ass produce. My area everyone has at least half acre or an acre... lot so... most have room for a garden plus a little yard. Nice thing about America is not all of it is crammed housing like a lot of European countries. We still have lots of land space in America.

I have some basic herbs on my window sill and I got really excited this morning to find that my lettuce had sprouted! It's not a whole lot, but when the farmer markets come back in May, it's pretty good.

I remember my grandparents large garden. They only grew two things- cucumbers and tomatoes. I'm not a big tomato fan. But dang, I loved those cucumbers, sprinkled with a little bit of salt. It's still my favorite veggie and I hope to get some cucumbers growing this year.

Amazing.....everytime I bring up the garden, people chime in with their experience. It's almost always positive.

You guys are right about the freshness and flavor. It's hard to get good stuff from the store, even if you have a store.

It's a way to get people excited about good food and feel like they have accomplished something. It's a way to remember nostalgic times and maybe a way to overcome that idea that elitists are telling you want to do. Nothing makes you feel more down to earth than growing something. Oh yeah, did I mention you get to eat what you grow? :-)

(BTW, cucumbers sometimes need help fertilizing. Get a cotton swab or makeup brush and exchange pollen between the flowers to ensure lots of cucumbers!)

Hey person with green thumb and pollinating technics, start a home garden group on the Vine whydoncha?

Hey person with green thumb and pollinating technics, start a home garden group on the Vine whydoncha?

Don't be a hater now....you just extended this thread! I think a group might already exist. Maybe I will start one.

You could make a comment about the article. No one is stopping you with a cucumber or a leaf of lettuce. :-)

If you don't I started one here. I'm not aware if there is another group of the Vine similar to this or not. If it turns out there is one.. I'll delete it. No biggie.

Can't put anything in the ground until May but oh, the plans I have. Veggies, herbs, roses, lavender, peonies. Every time I plant, weed, water, cut or harvest, I remember my grandmother.

If you don't I started one here. I'm not aware if there is another group of the Vine similar to this or not. If it turns out there is one...

Haaa....great! I just joined. You are fast on the draw Simplistic!

See? Just keep on with the green thumb whydoncha?

Anyone have any suggestions on how to keep the bunnies away? The little buggers love the baby veggies.

A little 1.5 foot fence around it should help and put it deep enough to make it hard for them to dig threw. A dog usually does the trick too. :P

Used Kitty litter around the perimeter.

I've heard that as well.

Tried the fence. The garden is just shy of an acre, so it was pretty labot intensive too. Didn't work. Had to make it out of chicken wire. Wood would have been too pricey. They just chewed right through it. I'll try the kitty litter thing this year. I have a cat and I'll start saving. Thanks!

Anyone have any suggestions on how to keep the bunnies away

As a rabbit owner, the used kitty litter will probably be your absolute best bet. Fences wont work unless they go underground deep enough. If you have any bird feeders, move them far away from the veggies. Bunnies LOVE the bird seeds, especially if they have sunflower. If you don't mind having to really wash the veggies (or you have a persistent little bugger), take a strong smelling body soap and dilute it with water. Then spray liberally over the area and reapply as needed. Or, go to your local pet store. They should have house rabbit repellents available that are safe and non-toxic, but taste icky to bunnies. That stuff keeps my rabbits from chewing on my carpet, so it should work well against wild bunnies.

Although the question then becomes... where do get enough cat @!$%# for just shy of an acre of a garden? :P

Cat shelter! Seriously, go around and ask local cat shelters, cat hospitals, humane society, etc! They have a LOT of cat poo....

Never even thought of that actually. Good one. Lol.

For an acre, I'd go for a couple of Rat terriers or some sort of a dog that liked to hunt bunnies. We were over run with cats at one point until the owls and coyotes discovered the buffet bonanza. That was several years back and I think that kitty poop and plutonium have about the same half life.

I think that kitty poop and plutonium have about the same half life.

XD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

stopped at Home Depot yesterday for pots and starter plants. doing our first veggie/herb garden this year. container garden because we expect to move at the end of the summer - so nothing too fancy. requested to join the new group.

We rent and the owner won't let me tear up the yard for a garden. So I have everything in pots on the deck. Anyone know If those Topsy Turvy tomato things work?

Tried one once, I didn't care for it. Have had great luck with the earth boxes though.

For the bunnies.........I found planting basil within easy reach will sometimes attract bunnies to eat that instead of the lettuce and other veggies. They seem to prefer it (at least in Chicago) They also leave enough for you too.

This article is kind of bias in that it focuses on what African-American's in Cali ate during 1900's as opposed to today, but you kind of get the idea of the difference in eating / food between the past century. Would I say healthier food? I'd probably go with yes. Especially the more well of you were. Most people unless you well off didn't eat meat daily. Was more of a weekly or weekend thing as meat was expensive and not as commercialized as it is today obviously.

A lot of that probably has to do with the kind of meat you eat. There is a lot of difference between meat that is raised in a factory farm and what is just free range. In the 1900's there weren't near the chemical additives and preservatives and such that is in food now either.

Very true. The factor farm raised ones are fat as hell, crappy environments, etc, etc. Too see it in person is mind boggling. The chickens now days... are soo fat they can barley even stand.. all so people can have those big fatty chicken breasts. I'd take free range any day! More humane as well. A happy animal is said to taste better as well.. which partly why Kobe beef is the most expensive beef you can possibly by in the World.

I grew up on a farm and even though it has been a long time, I still remember what real food tastes like. We get free range stuff on occasion here and the difference is very noticeable. If I could get the old lady into it, we would only by farmers market stuff in season. Happy veggies are better too. :-)

Yeah me too if I could afford it. We got a few good stores around here that are all organic and fresh and local produce. Just they charge an arm and a leg for it all and being unemployed... isn't really an option. Kind of messed up to eat healthier you got to pay twice the cost IMHO. The local farmers market is pretty well priced though from what I hear.

Yeah, the organic stuff in the health food places is a little out of my range too. I guess most of us are stuck with imported produce and cage raised chickens and eggs. Kind of sucks. I can't even afford fish anymore except as a once in awhile treat, and even then it seems that most of it is raised in china.

Yeah I really really don't like eating things from China or sketchy nations... or in fact.. anywhere from long ways away. You can't help but wonder.. how many hands... or what the deal is with the product on the other end. You really do put a lot of trust into strangers.. and foreign nations... and workers that everything is on the up and up. I'd buy totally localy on everything if I could to be honest... or in USA but I realize that in some cases isn't realistic or an option..due to where some things are grown / harvested.

Thankfully for me out here in Pacific Northwest... got ample supply of fresh local Salmon, other types of fish, Crab, and the works. :)

I think I will go have a fit of envy.

Soylent Green.

2022!!!Red, yellow, or green...your choice!
"We've got to stop them somehow!"

mmmm.....Charlton Heston. sorry. couldn't resist. i actually just reread Make Room! Make Room! this week and managed to find a DVD of Soylent Green on Amazon, too!

hehehe.....

You gotta roll em in flour! Seriously tho, I dont think fat people are at all attractive! You would think that no one would sleep with them. Like pairs up with like I guess.

And then of course... you got people like this lady.. who's at 700lbs.. and has the record for being fattest women to have a child... and now on purpose wants to reach 1000ish lbs to become worlds fattest women. As if that is some "honor" or something. She spends 750 dollars a month on food. Holy cow. Disgusting.

She should be classified as an unfit mother and that child removed before she tries to turn it into a mother/daughter act. What a selfish selfish woman she is.

before she tries to turn it into a mother/daughter act.

If she ever wants to accomplish her goal she'll have to devour the child before then.