Why Are Republican Prudes Still Desperate to Control Your Sex Life?

As the conservatives, represented by the GNOP find themselves losing power and support to a more progressive vision, they will not only hunker down, but attempt to exert control over people in every possible way including reproductive rights. Crazy, I know, since the tide is turning the opposite direction, but logic fails them...

These guys are not out of step with the sexual beliefs and practices of most Americans, that would be giving them an excuse. If they were really so naive, I could pardon their ridiculous behaviour. But,.. they are the biggest hypocrites on earth, because they are all promiscuous perverts behind closed doors with their interns.

Just like the most successful drug dealers don't sample their product, the most successful conservative politicians and religious leaders don't really believe or follow the crap that they preach. I bet santorum has had enough gay sex to make all of west hollywood blush. Ha!

And yet all the Viagra commercials are aimed at the white middle aged conservative guy. Makes me think SOME republicans think sex is ok. And every Catholic I know uses birth control. And the two abortions that I know of so far this year in my daughter's high school were both daughters of very conservative families (very hush hush, dontcha' know.) I don't think it's a problem for the Cons that people have sex. It's just like every other thing: it's ok for them because they are good people and have earned that right. It's just wrong for "the rest of us" because we are irresponsible, lazy, no-goods looking for handouts.

Its strange how the red side always brings religion promanite and in your face about their religious beliefs, and how they want to kill the rights of the majority of the people rights, to live their lives by their own beliefs. We are a free people in this country, and have the right to live are lives the way we see fit, and if those rights differ, why does the red side feel, they have the right to make us conform to their religious beliefs when one of the corner of this countries was our freedom to live our lives as we want to. The seperation of church and state, is a right the majority of the people, believe in, and should fight for thoses rights at the voting booth and tell them to keep their d#mn belief out of our politics.

While I wholeheartedly agree with the concept... The "don't get high off your own supply" analogy is really the exact opposite of what I think you are attempting to convey.

Since what the hypocritical GOP "supplies" is a laundry list of puritanical values; which, if they actually took part in, would not constantly come back to bite them in the ass...

Instead they follow the "do as I say, not as I do" model of thinking; which doesn't even work when teaching toddlers. Why they think it would work with adults is beyond me...

Good Morning Love! =)

These asshats are simply grasping at straws anymore, note how they are skipping the real issues in favor of issues they made themselves, abortion, gay rights (non-rights ifthey have their way), contraception. It's like they have this fear of human sexuality and all the joy it can bring. Like I said in a previous seed, my guess is that Santorum was caught whacking Willie by mommy one too many times and now has a mis-shapen head and outlook because of it.

Don't you people,

I see your point but, the point I was making is that, if, a drug dealer uses drugs he will likely be unable to make a profit and keep his business going. Likewise if a religious leader/politician were to actually conform to the rules and ideals of their religion they would not be able to climb the republican ranks because they would be opposed to all the underhanded backroom deals and scams that are a regular part of politics.

That would make sense it what they were preaching was to not screw other people over in business for personal gain without any sort of rules or regs.

But unfortunately, the shady back room @!$%# is EXACTLY what they are peddling. As far as those "rules" go, they are doing just what they say.

Non-procreative sex huh?

Someone,please justify why the RNC itself paid their claims for them to go to a bondage club before the 2010 mid-terms. Please. I'm all ears.

Rules for everyone***

***Does not apply when derrr gop wants something for themselves

Why Are Republican Prudes Still Desperate to Control Your Sex Life?

maybe because they aren't happy with their own.

so if their not happy , be damn sure they don't want you to be.

or it's nothing more than ignorant mythical religious indoctrination and the shame they feel there of .... so have to push those views on everyone else. Not unlike the mid east.

Lets face it: the leadership of the Republican Party has been becoming MORE religious over the past three decades. ALSO, they have been becoming MORE pro-corporation since the 1970s. What I find absolutely amazing is their rank and file followers (aka the voters) are much less interested in the direction the leadership is going, but unwilling or unable to turn things around. POSSIBLY the Republican Party leadership uses 'the fear factor' to keep the rank and file in line?? Wait...lets take that as a definite !!

Why Are Republican Prudes Still Desperate to Control Your Sex Life?

The short answer: Because their bible told them so.

Actually, with the exception of Santorum, because the voters in the GOP's primary's bible told them so.

You know there is just as high a proportion of traffic to Internet porn sites from the southern Red states as there is from blue states, so the interest in sex seems just as high in Republicans as in Democrats. What is the hypocrisy that makes one party so much more inclined to legislate the sexual behavior of American citizens?

I think the nation would be much better off if the early primary states changed around so that the minority influences of the Evangelicals was not magnified in the first primary states. To do well in Iowa (which does not reflect the makeup of most of America) every Republican has to kowtow to the Evangelicals for months, that drags the discussion towards Social Conservatives. Make Iowa second so they are only there for a week or two and the whole dynamic would change.

Chris Matthews talked about the modern GOP as a party made up of "the dregs of die-hard, southern segregationists who left the Democrats after civil rights legislation passed, religious zealots who are an American Taliban wishing for Christian theocracy and true libertarians who believe that any government is too much". . . Or words to that effect.

maybe because they aren't happy with their own.

An excellent point, Rip. Hedonism is a bad practice, no matter what the behavior of choice is. If people can't be sexually satisfied with one mate, problems all too often are the result.

Once again: I'm no fan of the GOP, because of their policies in full support of greed. I know full that controlling ANYONE'S sex life is impossible, as illustrated by too many politicians of EITHER party, among other individuals. But consider the fact that it is only when something goes wrong, as illustrated by the examples in the seed, that sexual activity makes the news. How often is it a news story when married couples are involved in a relationship, only with each other?

“a license to do things in a sexual realm that is counter to how things are supposed to be.”

interesting way he looks at it.... "how things are supposed to be". There is SUPPOSED to be separation of church and state, the US is SUPPOSED to be the land of the free.

When you can't control your own sex life or don't have one,the next best thing is to root around in someone else's. These people are closet Voyeurs

The wingnuts are as freaky as anyone in this country. They do the same things in the same ways the rest of do them in bed. The problem is that the wingnuts have some high-minded ideal that they're better than everyone else, spouting rhetoric against most sexual practices, and yet constantly get caught with their pants down and hands in the cookie jar, making them look like total hypocritcal jerks.

They want to control it for purely mercenary reasons. It's the same reason the mullahs in Islamic Theocracies burden the rank and file with oppressive laws. Do their royal class and wealthy have to abide by the same laws? No. They can afford private palaces where they can indulge all their fantasies, trips to the French Riviera where they can drink alcohol and date escort girls.

These sexual morality laws are for the POOR to keep them in line, distracted and compliant while the rich get to do what they please. In this case, the rich corporations who would like to exploit resources in the mid-west and south without any complaint from the people there.

I don't for one minute buy that the Santorums and Bachmans of the world are actually walking the talk in any way that would not later prove advantageous to them. Its a coldly calculated, carefully crafted image they have to complement their agenda of appeasing the poor and pious while serving the wealthy and amoral.

Because Republicans believes only their political philosophy matters. Only their cause is just and they should be the only people allowed to do the screwing. Just look at the Party of No screwing every issue that comes before the Republicans. Even if it's their bill and or issue they still refuse to allow anything to pass.

Republicans these days remind me of my father. "Don't do as I do, do as I say". They can keep their damn hands off my reproductive rights.

I can answer question of why the prudes wanna be busy bodies want to run your sex life.

Because they are....a bunch of hypoctrical dominionist old fat bignorant white confederate flag flying self righteous evangelical busy bodies who have nothing better to do with their lives than to believe they are important enough to sit right in your bedroom and examine everything you do...they are the "morality police" the Nazi brownshirts of America, they believe they are "ordained by Gawada" to tell you when, how, where to make babies, and if you do you must be forced into having it.

This bunch so hypocritcal idiots want it both ways, they want government money to be given to their "faith based" organizations, but at the same time once they force you to have a child you are on your own and to give you any welfare, food stamps ect is "big gubment" involvement and screw you "eye've git maine"....

They are sex obsessed purient yet puritanical fanatics!

Actually, it is out of spite. They don't get any good sex, so they want to make sure no one else does either. Poor chaps. It is no wonder all they seem able to think about is the sex they are not getting.

I read this once and I think it sums this up fairly well......

"Puritanism:

The inconsolable fear, that someone, somewhere, may be having fun."

Reliant

You know there is just as high a proportion of traffic to Internet porn sites from the southern Red states as there is from blue states, so the interest in sex seems just as high in Republicans as in Democrats. What is the hypocrisy that makes one party so much more inclined to legislate the sexual behavior of American citizens?

actually ? interestingly ?

Porn in the USA: Conservatives are biggest consumers
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn16680-porn-in-the-usa-conservatives-are-biggest-consumers.html

Ya know I have to wonder just how bad their lives really are to try and control other peoples sex lives ?? Now while I have my beliefs, I live them myself, and allow others to live as they will. Not because I'm better then them, but because I'm not better than them. God Created all of us im my belief, so since He Created all of us, He is the One to decide what is acceptable or not, not me.

So I have to believe that He allows people to do what they do because it serves His purpose not ours. I wish the GOP/TPer's would understand that God call upon us to witness not just through words but our lives as well. Stop being hypocrites and start showing how happy they are with the lives they have and maybe just maybe people will listen to them.

Great link Ripley8, keep up the good work!

Good one Ripley - I think it is because their religious upbringing tells them no it is bad so they just have to investigate what everyone else is doing in order to protect them from themselves. /s/

Actually I think it is because they are so sexually depraved they use religion to try and balance it out in hopes that they can still make it into dreamland while beating off to Hustler!

Why are Republican Prudes Still Desperate to Control Your Sex Life? The difference between Democrats and Republicans is Democrats wanna get in your wallet but will leave your bedroom alone, while Republicans wanna get in your bedroom but will leave your wallet alone, which is why I am an Independent, because I don't want to get in your wallet OR your bedroom.

the republicans just have a different way of getting in your wallet Slick Willard Mitt Romney style....its called "vulture capitalism", bankrupt your workplace, lay you off, steal your pension and then fight you on your unemployment.

Demolition man is look less like a fictional movie.

Well, I think this seed has shown that the religious right does not have the huge grip on coservative Americans that they(and I) thought they did.

If this seed was about welfare, immigration, drugs, taxes, or obama, there would be plenty of posts from the conservative view point but, I'm not seeing too many people chime in on this one except to say, GET OUT OF MY BEDROOM!

Maybe there is hope after all.

Let's see, Aids, syphyllis, gonorreah, brain disease, cancer. Yes, you guys who believe that open and free sex is the way to go sure know how to pick em, don't you? Brother!

So much for hope :(

Judi, have you ever heard of a condom?

Why Are Republican Prudes Still Desperate to Control Your Sex Life?

Cuz they want some of it and can't get any. That's why!

The only way Nutty Newt, Bonehead Boehner, Chris Christie and others can get any is they have to pay fer it with your tax dollars = (their salaries). They know the people are looking to cut back on politicians salaries and benefits, so they don't want any of us to get any either.

bwahahahahahahahaha...

Why Are Republican Prudes Still Desperate to Control Your Sex Life?

The reason is for just that - control.

The thinking is to easily control the least number of workers for the least amount of pay (minimizing expenses) while making sure there are generations of consumers (maximizing profits).

livinginthewoods, you would have to ask all those with aids, syphyllis, gonorreah, I don't have those issues. But a better choice for sex life would be monogamy or your condom or restricting your activity in that activity choice. Wouldn't you say that to be true?

And religion does suggest that those options are available, doesn't it? So why is it so hard for you hard noses to accept that conservatives believe in some old fashioned values that could serve each and every one of us.

Yea, judi, tell that to Newt, Mark Sanford and quite a few other "conservatives" with good old fashioned values LOL. Sanctimonious bull@!$%#.

If you won't stand for something, then you'll fall for anyth.....

....a little lower......oh yeah.......a little slower.....

...that's the spot.....

What was I saying?

judi just adds some more of the "nasty" to make sex seem unnatural and wrong. AIDS was discovered and named but who knows how long it was being spread around in obscure areas before we became aware of the condition and put a label on it. How many crazies have we read about through history that died of syphilis? Sexual diseases have been around since time began and there has been developments in prevention and cures. Education assists a lot yet the Republicans don't want anything to do with this at all. Using sex for a format is ludicrous and they know this as well as we do.

I bet santorum has had enough gay sex to make all of west hollywood blush. Ha!

The phrase Rick's Santorum comes to mind

judi - because they are a bunch of hypocritical liars for the most part and do not practice what they preach. Look at Newt, 3 marriages and he was gettung BJ's from his current wife while still married to #2.

judi fermanich

livinginthewoods, you would have to ask all those with aids, syphyllis, gonorreah, I don't have those issues. But a better choice for sex life would be monogamy or your condom or restricting your activity in that activity choice. Wouldn't you say that to be true?

And religion does suggest that those options are available, doesn't it? So why is it so hard for you hard noses to accept that conservatives believe in some old fashioned values that could serve each and every one of us.

ever hear of education Judi ? oh that's right ... sex ed is something cons don't want.

Religion ? most preach against safe sex or are wishy washy on the subject ... since it would prevent procreation.
http://atheism.about.com/od/abortioncontraception/p/ReligionBirth.htm

old fashioned values ? you mean abstinence ? that has been shown doesn't happen ? Maybe we can return to those old fashioned values of back alley abortions , sending your daughter away when finding out she was pregnant .

Sexual disease and pregnancy in the good old days ... it was just hidden . Selective nostalgia .
http://www.stephaniecoontz.com/articles/article10.htm

example...

The first well-recorded European outbreak of what is now known as syphilis occurred in 1494 when it broke out among French troops besieging Naples.[35] From this centre, the disease swept across Europe, killing more than five million people
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexually_transmitted_disease

1494. Very strict in terms of mythical religious belief....

You people that try to justify your habits whatever they may be only prove the point. As a nation we have left behind our morals and ethics and everything else that signifies clean open living. And we have instead bought into the easy anything goes, because it is my right to do it. Did you ever consider that this type of logic is what has brought our kids to killing one another and children being killed by their parents? Is there any connection to teachers having sex with our teenagers and the permissive attitudes you people here are promoting? If you think not then I am sorry for you. I have not excused any political party member, or any party. I have not excused myself because for years I did not speak up, believing as many of you do that each his own. However, I no longer believe that because it allows for no responsibility by anyone. And our kids have come to believe that destroying their rivals is acceptable. Greed is okay. Multiple sex partners is fine and expect no consequences. Because after all, everyone is doing it.

So do not expect me or many who believe as I do that responsibility for our actions rests with each of us as does our behavior. And we do not excuse ourselves and we surely do not excuse you who poke fun at our attempt to bring some common sense and honesty into our day to day lives as human beings and as thinking beings.

We know errors will be made but we expect a sincere apology and a serious attempt not to repeat the behavior. We certainly have the right to believe that those considering "removing" impediments such as our children or parents or rivals, would reconsider their actions and behave in a more adult, mature manner.

Nothing I have written would indicate that I advocate or that any conservative Republlican advocates for back alley abortions, or any of the other stupid statements written here. But responsible grown up behavior instead of the "gimmee" or "I" "I" "me" that I see spouted in some of these posts.

And I do know what constitutes mature behavior. Some of what I read here does not qualify.

As a nation we have left behind our morals and ethics and everything else that signifies clean open living.

As long as we are speaking about what has been left behind, please include the following; compassion, caring, acceptance and respect for others. I am not sure if you would classify this as mature behavior, I call it common decency.

Or we realized the Harper Valley PTA was just a mess of Harper Valley hypocrites.

I get so tired of people believing Father Knows Best represented any form of reality. I recall when Peyton Place was published, every small town was upset because the author was describing them and their carrying ons. It was a national past time, trying to figure out who THAT character really is.

One common trait of serial killers is a strong religious background. "She made me commit the sin of fornication, so I must kill her" Maybe by be open about who we really are, our children will not grow up tight ass-ed bigots, living hypocritical lives, pretending to be people they are not. Hell, they might even adopt an attitude of live and let live. They might find life and all it offers a thing to be enjoyed - not feared, new people met, friends not enemies.

Though the reality is that compassion, caring, acceptance and respect for others is actually increasing - and rather sharply at that - when considered at the macro level, going back for at least the last five centuries. Indeed, our sensitivity to the lack of compassion, caring, acceptance and respect for others is a reflection of just how much more important these things are now than they were in past centuries, with regard to each kind of scenario where there is such a lack. For example, three hundred years ago, disparaging remarks about racial minorities wouldn't have even seemed inappropriate to even the most considerate - would often have been taken for granted without conscious reaction even by those at whom such remarks were directed.

Indeed, a lot of things that folks choose to label a lack of morals are themselves actually a reflection of greater compassion, caring, acceptance and respect for others, and the prejudicial labeling is itself therefore merely a reflection of lingering lack of compassion, caring, acceptance and respect for others. People who fear changes associated with progress will often clump together positive movement forward with negative aspects just to rationalize their self-motivated criticisms of that which they fear.

j f:

You people that try to justify your habits whatever they may be only prove the point. As a nation we have left behind our morals and ethics and everything else that signifies clean open living. And we have instead bought into the easy anything goes, because it is my right to do it.

So I guess you mean the GOP/TPer's as well right ?? Because they think it is their right to tell everyone else how to be morally acceptible while they are not themselves. I mean they think it is alright to love money above people, and that if they control the money they will control society.

Ya might want to stop and think about what is said in The Holy Bible- The Love of Money is the root to all types of evil- Do you really believe the founders of this nation lived such pure lives ??

They murdered the inhabitants that were here before them and justified it by claiming the indians were heathens and so therefore didn't matter as much as them. They also brought slaves from Africa and other nations, basing the slavery upon the skin color of those they enslaved. They were all pious and put prople to death for their beliefs as if they knew the hearts of the people they murdered. These were the conservative base that you draw your strength from as being our teachers ?? The very people who gave disease infected blankets to indians knowing it would kill many of them. They remind me of the ones who thought the Spanish Inquisition was the right thing to do to get rid of the non Catholic believers.

Thanks but no thanks. Live and let live. No-one ever saved someone by killing them or forcing them to believe as they do. Jesus Christ warned the Pharisees about their lies and false works. But still many think that by our works we are saved. We are saved by His Grace, not our works. So stop the holier than thou bit. Without our Lord Jesus Christ your deeds are not acceptible either.

I prefer mercy over sacrifice. Does that ring a bell with you.

As always, well said!

Judi "You People" is very telling about you. Who are "you people" and what do they have to do with your view of humanity and its morals of lack of morals? What makes you think that most people are not conscientious about their moral codes? Just because a few are under-educated and must learn their lessons the hard way does not indicate that our country is a bunch of writhing entwined careless bodies doing the wild thing. Come on your broad brush is becoming a bit tedious.

judi fermanich

So why is it so hard for you hard noses to accept that conservatives believe in some old fashioned values that could serve each and every one of us.

BS!

"Conservatives"????? All of them???? And another thing, responsibility and maturity are not the sole purview of you so called "conservatives". And they are not ALL people of "family values". So many of them love to billboard that slogan. To say it does not mean they are. You would be wise to not generalize. All you do by doing that is perpetuate a CULTURE WAR! Keep it up, and you will lose! Severely!!!!

Actually, it has generally been the neo-conservatives who have been espousing immoral perspectives.

The original conservatives were folks who were primarily concerned about keeping national budget deficits low. It was an honorable, compassionate form of conservatism.

About thirty or forty years ago, the venue of conservatives was co-opted by a new band of immoral neo-conservatives, greed-centric, not caring about the deficit but just caring about their own financial security without regard to how their myopic selfishness would affect the common good. They formed an alliance with religious reactionaries, who up until that time had been adhering to their dogmatic principles to eschew secular institutions such as politics, but had decided instead to hypocritically seek to press their beliefs and values on everyone.

Together, they have successfully rid themselves of the trappings of honorable conservatism, and seek to impose their respective bits of immorality on the American public, often (paradoxically) trying to fly under the banner of morality!

Judi, check out this link. I admit the Democrats have had their share of sex scandals too but they don't approach the situation in the manner you and the GOP like to view this. The GOP talks Family Values and blah, blah, blah and with their record this makes them hypocrites. OLD FASHIONED VALUES seem to be in the eye of the beholder.

http://www.dkosopedia.com/wiki/Republican_Sex_Scandals

You people that try to justify your habits whatever they may be only prove the point.

Yes, just who are "you people," which would exclude the speaker who put that forth?

So do not expect me or many who believe as I do that responsibility for our actions rests with each of us as does our behavior.

What's that supposed to mean? If that's the case, who is repsonsible for my actions and behaviors? That statement is the antithesis of the right wing rallying song, though I frequently do find them to be rather hypocritical in accepting responsibility for their actions.

Of course I am responsible for my actions and behaviors (and that's from an ultra-liberal, BTW, for all the lib bashers on the right).

I think Judi would well fit this ..

Pathologizing Conservatism
Is it an unfortunate evolutionary holdover, or the product of bad upbringing?

Whether it be an unfortunate evolutionary holdover or a mental disease transmitted by our parents—the science is apparently still up in the air—academic researchers have surely amassed enough evidence of psychopathology that conservatism can listed in the next edition of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders. Reasonable people, such as the distinguished academic researchers cited here, will no doubt agree that until effective treatments can be developed, we should reconsider whether sufferers of conservatism, like other mental defectives, should be allowed freely to exercise the franchise.
http://reason.com/archives/2004/10/20/pathologizing-conservatism

Researchers help define what makes a political conservative

Four researchers who culled through 50 years of research literature about the psychology of conservatism report that at the core of political conservatism is the resistance to change and a tolerance for inequality, and that some of the common psychological factors linked to political conservatism include:

* Fear and aggression
* Dogmatism and intolerance of ambiguity
* Uncertainty avoidance
* Need for cognitive closure
* Terror management
http://www.berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/2003/07/22_politics.shtml

Conservative Racial Prejudice Is More Than A Stereotype

A new study by the widely respected Pew Research Center confirms my analysis of those older white voters: The study found a growing generation gap in the electorate, with older voters more likely to support Republicans while younger voters are more likely to vote Democratic. Those party alliances, Pew found, are strongly tied to racial perceptions.

"Race and ethnicity are strongly associated with views about government, and in no small part account for some of the greater liberalism of the younger age groups and greater conservatism of older groups. The polling finds that older generations ... do not fully embrace diversity."

The Pew study also confirms my strongly held view that the nation's fractured political climate is due, in part, to white voters' fears of a browning America. While younger white Americans have largely embraced the cultural and demographic changes that have transformed politics, entertainment and courtship, older white Americans are uncomfortable -- if not alarmed -- by those changes.

http://feliznavidad.newsvine.com/_news/2011/11/14/8798181-conservative-racial-prejudice-is-more-than-a-stereotype

ah those good old days , .... it's selective memory. We weren't any more moral 100,200 years ago than today. The only difference of yesteryear and today is media has made information more available.

Incest was just as prevelant in 1950 as today , but today we hear about it.

more moral then ? then you could beat your wife to a pulp and that was fine with the law... nothing they could do ( from experience there was nothing the could or would do in the 70's either for that matter ).

There is nothing new sexually under the sun to have happened that didn't happen in the past. Research sex in the old west ! Prostitutes were a major source of income for many towns and kept them afloat financially.

http://www.soiled-doves.com/

One aspect that hits me hard is that sex is a control issue for some and when a couple engage in sex one or the other partner uses this to gain control of the other. Perhaps this is one of the problems the Conservatives have as the control issue is what they are all about.

The "you people" I refer to are those on this site who are lumping all conservatives as being self serving uncaring. The lack of respect could include those who chose to villify those of us who still believe in God and the Commandments. The few who have chosen to include all who do not agree with them as being petty and lacking in morals.

If you have not done the above then obviously you are not included in my statement. That some of you are trying to villify me, proves my point. I have not lumped all of you into one category, but I have tried to show that we Christians have given and given to the point that many of you are unwilling to allow for our beliefs anymore. That to me is an error on your part, and it is to that that I refer. As for the rest of you; what can I say, you will continue to belittle and put down in various ways, those of us who want to try to do better using our faith as a means to achieve that end.

Keep in mind that at no time have I said conservatives are perfect. Nor have I ever said that those of us who are do not make mistakes. Thinking as an independent person, I have learned better than to say, " Joe Blow is a Republican and he cheats" or Jane Brown talks like she is perfect and she steals or any of the other illegal or immoral things that she might have done." Fact of the matter is every darn one of us has done things that we are not proud of. The idea however, is that we try not to repeat those mistakes. When we choose to repeat them, that is when the pattern is established, then you can start throwing stones. Until then, it might be wise to button your lip and look, listen and learn. That is just a thought.

Judi - even though it comes across as a broad stroke of the brush it is really not meant that way. I have conservative friends on the vine who use that same brush about liberals. I really don't think it is meant to lump all conservatives together as we all know that everyone is different, it is just lazy typing IMHO. I'm guilty of it myself even though it is not my true intent so please try not to take too much offense.

Painting with a broad brush is never advisable. The bottom line for me is there is no reason for anyone to dictate sexual behavior among humans. It is an abuse of power. No one has a right to manipulate through their religion as this is also an abuse of power. If churches want to dictate to their congregations fine, keep it there where it belongs and let the members decide if this is right for them. Government does not need or want this interference and it will not bode well if they attempt to pass laws that take away women's rights or discriminate against others.

The Commandments while all well and good for those practicing religion are of choice and don't belong anywhere else. You and your religious community can dictate morals and sin until God shows up for all the rest of us care, simply keep this where it belongs.

The fact of the matter is, too many on the Vine do precisely that, and mean it. They lump all in the same pot and let it stew. They begin to believe their own b.s. and expect that others will as well. I believe that to be one reason why so many of us, not all, but many; are at each others throats. We have accepted those generalizations as true.

As for #1.59 . my "religious community" and I are responsible for many of the laws that are practiced every day by you as well as every atheist and agnostic in this country. They are the basis for any and every law that is passed. That does not mean that you who are not part of the community of God, should live by our dictates alone. It does, however, mean that you are not allowed the freedom from those laws, those commandments, that you believe do not apply to you. It still means that you can choose to disregard them, at your peril, either because the community will judge you or you will find judgement in the hereafter, as I believe. But free will is still yours to utilize to your benefit, if that is your choice.

I am not telling you what to do. I simply relate what I think will be possible outcomes.

judi for someone complaining and blaming others for trying to stuff their beliefs upon you, you seem to be doing the very same thing and believe it is your "right". How's that working for you? No wonder you are so frustrated. Deal with yourself and leave others alone, please, as they don't need your dogma, indoctrination or propaganda to live their lives. They do quite well on their own as you do on your own.No one is trying to change the way you believe they are simply stating their opinion. You seem to have a pretty large pot set up yourself, if you don't mind my mentioning this. Some of us are live and let live, others, it's my way or the highway. That's how it rolls.

js-445607

You and your religious community can dictate morals and sin until God shows up for all the rest of us care, simply keep this where it belongs.

I don't recall in my youth ever really seeing a problem between those who believe in their faith and others. Maybe it's just me, but it seems that now a days the differences are amplified to the point of distortion. Demonization of persons different than themselves seems to be the call of our times. I think it is because god has become a political weapon of sorts. And the only purpose of this is to crush another's beliefs or non beliefs. This, IMO, is a extremely dangerous and fatal tact to take in a free society. I agree, js! Live and let live with respect as human beings for all is in order if we as a free nation are to survive. The alternative I fear would be a blood bath of, excuse the expression, biblical proportions.

Maybe it's just me, but it seems that now a days the differences are amplified to the point of distortion.

There was a period of time after the ascendancy of radio and television as major forces in shaping elections, before politicians figured out how to use these media to accomplish a new form of amplification leading to distortion. In the 19th Century, it wasn't uncommon to campaign by casting reckless aspersions on your opponent, essentially engaging in ad hominem attacks with little or no actually foundation for those attacks. With a more developed news media looking to expose the invalidity of the attacks as much as presenting them, such vacuous attacks would be ineffective or worse. By the end of the 1950s, however, the stage was set for a new path forward that has eventually led us to the political polarization we see today, fostered by the media rather than confronted by it.

js- Nothing I said relates to what you have just stated. Why do you insist on distorting my words? The laws of this land are directly related to the 10 Commandments. That is my only point. Unless you have chosen to be a serious lawbreaker, you abide by the same laws I do. Enough said.

The laws of this land are directly related to the 10 Commandments.

Let's give this the sniff test.

1. Bible: You shall have no other gods.
   United States: Freedom of religion, granting equal rights to Hindus, Sikhs, etc.
2. Bible: Don't pray to graven images.
   United States: Heck, the Roman Catholic Church repudiates that one, not to mention the practice of other religions where prayer to idols is the norm - explicitly respected by US law.
3. Bible: Don't take God's name in vain.
   United States: "Oh God!" has grossed over $41 million dollars.
4. Bible: Keep the Sabbath day holy.
   United States: Maybe one day; maybe another day; and holy is completely optional according to American law.
5. Bible: Honor your father and mother.
   United States: Emancipation of minors from parents is not unheard of. What greater dishonor could there be other than state-supported repudiation?
6. Bible: Don't murder.
   United States: There's one match. Of course, murder was also prohibited by Semitic religions that predated Judaism, by earth-based religions practice in England, which partially help shape English law on which are law is based. But heck, let's give you one point there.
7. Bible: Don't commit adultery.
   United States: Adultery is not a crime; just a good reason to divorce.
8. Bible: Don't steal.
   United States: We could talk about how the uber-rich like Mitt Romney have stolen everything from the workers of the companies that they've raided, with impunity, but heck we'll be generous and give you a second point there.
9. Bible: Don't bear false witness against your neighbor.
   United States: There are different views on the meaning of this commandment. Some interpret the scope in the narrowest possible sense, as only a prohibition of lying in courtroom testimony. Other interpretations view the commandment as a prohibition on any false statement that degrades our neighbor’s reputation or dignity. Still others interpret the commandment in the broadest possible sense: as a prohibition on all lying. Averaging out the various interpretations, you get 3/4 of a point for this one.
10. Bible: Don't covet.
    United States: You can covet all you want, just don't steal... See #8, above.

So you are about 28% correct, judi.

judi, please go over all of your comments then get back to me. OK?

Just because we have chosen to ignore those portions of the bible, does not mean they were or are not laws. Men, women, whomever, has decided to ignore those rules which are inconvenient for them. Yes, I said inconventient. Adultery was a crime on the books until the men who wished to have that option chose to remove that law from the books.

Just because men have chosen to ignore the sanctions such as thou shalt have no strange gods before me, at one time that too was on the books.

No the Catholic church does not have graven images. The Catholic church does not have graven images which they pray to. However they have icons in place to remind their members of the struggles of the saints and of the Lord just so they can look at the icon as a reminder. We do not Pray to this icon, as some faiths do. We do not believe that the icon is a god onto itself. Do you understand the difference? If not, please speak to a priest, who can speak on the subject much clearer than I can.

Theft is still a crime here, regardless of who commits the crime. That some are not punished here who be punished in the hereafter. That is a difference between those who have faith and those who do not.

Just because some man or men have decided to remove laws against certain events makes them no less, horrid or reprehensible. Men have just decided that those laws do not apply to them. There is one heck of a difference between the two circumstances, the two strategies for achieving a lawful result.

God has not excused the events. He is the one that counts as far as I am concerned.

Just because some man or men have decided to remove laws against certain events makes them no less, horrid or reprehensible.

The point you seem to be missing is that men made up those laws. Some of those laws were good ones, and remain useful parameters for conduct. Other laws were not; they were reflections of irrational fear and lack of understanding of the true nature of God, something that is revealed to use bit by bit, century after century, rather than having been completely accomplished two thousand years ago as some mythologies would have you believe. God does count - the true God -the one that humans are incapable of ever understanding, not the God fabricated by men.

Walt, therein lies the difference between you and me. I do not believe the Commandments were conceived and written by man but by God , the true and wonderful God who had initially directed His people, the Jews Himself, but after His death, as Jesus; gave the whole world His opportunity to use their God-given skills to achieve life everlasting.

No we cannot understand His nature. I give you that. But and this is a big "but", He has and had given us the tools to do what is right, we chose to pick and choose so as not to interfere with our pleasures and desires. That is why the laws of man differ so greatly with what was actually asked for by that God. Makes them no less valuable or viable. Makes them no less true or worthy. It does however, mean that we, the children of our God, and I as a Christian, believe we, each and every one of us to be a child of God, regardless of our choice to deny Him, must do our best to live up to those rules, not downplay and try to degrade them. Again, free will.

But I also believe that there will be a reckoning when all this is over. I believe that I and every other human being on this planet will be asked to step up and be counted. We will be found wanting, every one of us. Each according to our own merits. So those laws that we have thrown to the wayside, the opportunities that we have wasted, the petty comments used to try to minimize the efforts of people who are trying to make a difference, those will all count in the end.

I am so far from perfect I am cringing to think of where I stand in this big picture. But I am crying for all those who refuse to even admit that maybe, just maybe there is a kernel of truth in what those Republicans are saying. Maybe those people are trying, in their own way, to make that difference for those who are refusing to think beyond their own small space. I want to think so.

Since human beings are so inadequate in so many ways, mistakes are made, large and small. But learning from those mistakes, admitting that we must go beyond our current position; that is the really hard part. Not just giving of yourself when it is convenient, but truly until it hurts. And so far, I don't see it. Not just here, on the Vine, but in commercials, in movies, books, poetry. So much of it is "Self". It is sad, truly sad.

So WaltDis. no I don't know the nature of God, but I have a darn good idea of what His requirement of me is. I know I fail more than I succeed. I know I am trying to get it right. And I know it is my responsibility to try to help others learn what I am trying to learn. But when so many are petty, and selfish and so sure, so certain of themselves that they do their best to put down anyone who will not agree with their idea of life on earth, and the hereafter, I get frustrated. Thanks for letting me spill my guts to you.

Good luck to you, in your endeavors to be a better person. I wish you well, and God bless you.

I do not believe the Commandments were conceived and written by man but by God

An omnipotent loving God could not be so self-absorbed as to have written the ten commandments.

He has and had given us the tools to do what is right

God sure has provided us with brains that can reason and discover the truth of the universe around us. It defiles God to believe something in spite of reason and knowledge gained through these gifts God bestowed on us.

regardless of our choice to deny Him

You do realize, I hope, that I'm saying you are denying God, and I have far more substantiation from my characterization than you have for yours. That's why I'm stating what I'm stating - not just to challenge you but because I think you're actually heading (along with others who follow along with you) in the opposite direction from that which you say you are seeking.

I rather feel like the local guy standing behind you on the line at the coffee shop at the rest stop on the Interstate, listening to you telling your friend how you're planning on taking highway 6 east to get to the each, when the beach is actually to the west instead.

So WaltDis. no I don't know the nature of God, but I have a darn good idea of what His requirement of me is.

We'll have to agree to disagree about that. From everything you've said, it seems to me that you're working hard to avoid hearing what I believe is the voice of God. I hope you eventually realize the actual truth of that which you value so much.

judi fermanich wrote:

But I also believe that there will be a reckoning when all this is over.

Fear can be a very effective method of controlling behavior.

I am so far from perfect I am cringing to think of where I stand in this big picture.

I find that immensely sad. I can't imagine going through life cringing over what one will go through after death because of their belief in God.

I'd think that would make God sad, too.

VerbalBarb wrote:

I find that immensely sad.

Seriously, I just can't picture my personal validation being dependent on a demonstrably capricious imaginary friend.

It is ironic that our birthright gives us all the necessary tools to walk whatever path we choose then someone comes along and tries to steal this all away from us. If we can't stand alone we cannot stand at all so depending upon others just doesn't cut it in the scheme of things.

I say that I cringe because I know that there is so much I could have done and didn't. It is much like not doing your chores at home, knowing that your Mom will be mad as hell when she gets home. I know she will still love me but I know she will be disappointed.

Therein lies the cringe reasoning. I am not afraid of Him, not at all. Sorry if I misspoke.

Good backpedal.