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SOPH0571

Don't dismiss a good idea simply because you don't like the source.
Articles Posted: 297  Links Seeded: 5851
Member Since: 10/2008  Last Seen: 5/16/2012

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Poll: Social Conservative Values v Jobs, Jobs, Jobs

Thu Feb 9, 2012 2:20 PM EST
politics, gop, republican, poll, gay-marriage, discrimination, religious-right, election-2012, lgbt-rights, the-economy, social-conservative, war-one-women
By Soph0571

Live Poll

When picking a GOP candidate what matters most?

View Results
  • 175552
    Social Conservative Values
    50%
  • 175553
    Jobs, Jobs, Jobs
    19%
  • 175554
    Neither
    4%
  • 175555
    Other
    12%
  • 175556
    None of the above
    15%
  • 175557
    Don’t know
    1%

VoteTotal Votes: 109

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So Santorum took three wins this week.  Granted they are caucuses and it is still unclear how much value they will have to the campaign, but he still gave Romney a bit of a spanking and got some wind beneath his wings.  Now we can’t help but recognise that Santorum is on the extreme end of social conservatism, his views on women’s rights, reproductive justice, contraception, lgbt rights, gay marriage, poor people  and global warming, to name but a few, are somewhere right of Mars and leading to another dimension altogether.  But still he won this week. 

His understanding of the economy and how it might get fixed seems rather lacklustre (I am trying to be polite here!), and almost by rote out of the fiscal conservative handbook.  Hell his mantra of reducing the size of government, cutting the corporate tax rate in half and permanently extending the Bush tax cuts for capital gains and dividends come straight from a fiscal conservative pander to the 1 % playbook. But still he won this week.  For me I do not see Santorum as strong on the economy.  From a GOP perspective that has to be Romney.  But still he lost this week. 

So what really matters to the republican’s taking part in the ever entertaining primary season?  Will they really vote for a social conservative when in reality the only thing that matters is Jobs, Jobs, Jobs?  Will faith and faux outrage really trump the economy? 

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  • Public Discussion (27)
Soph0571

I refuse to believe that anyone voted for Santorum cause of his take on the economy. They voted for his all embracing hatred of quality and individual rights. So what matters more? I would have thought it was a no brainer, guess I was wrong.

  • 14 votes
Reply#1 - Thu Feb 9, 2012 2:21 PM EST
pinkcap

I've given up trying to understand why some people vote for those who share their "values" but have no concept on what it takes to run a country. You think they would have learned their lesson with Bush.

  • 11 votes
#1.1 - Thu Feb 9, 2012 3:03 PM EST
ryoushi12

That is certainly true in Minnesota, where the republican party has largely devolved into a reactionary, nearly fascist grouping, as moderates have deserted it for the viable alternative of the moderate right Independent party (yes Soph, we in Minnesota have a LONG tradition of having THREE major parties, the last being the Farmer/Labor party which united with the Democratic party). For the last several elections, Independent party candidates at the state office level have polled 7-10% of the vote, and have polled MUCH higher in local and district elections (in my district, the seat of bachmann, the Independent candidate polls about 30% of the vote, effectively splitting the opposition to bachmann). So, I wasn't surprised to see santorum do as well as he has - this has been a trend for at least 15 years. Aand, the other interesting thing is that ron paul did well, but ONLY in counties where there are large state colleges or private colleges - so much for a college education improving a person's mind.

  • 3 votes
#1.2 - Thu Feb 9, 2012 4:17 PM EST
RI Mom

Famine, pestilence, hives, and foreclosures were NOT caused by the gay community.

Once a candidate is focused on abortion, contraceptives, Planned Parenthood, and gays..it is a clear indication that they are deficient on global affairs, economics, strategy, science, education, population shifts, and the tax loopholes specific to the 1%.

This CLUELESS resume is hardly reassuring.

  • 9 votes
#1.3 - Thu Feb 9, 2012 4:26 PM EST
Jumpmaster82

Sometimes I believe that the President just baits the GOP into a frenzy and sits back and watches them convulse.

  • 1 vote
#1.4 - Fri Feb 10, 2012 3:10 PM EST
NotKidding

I've given up trying to understand why some people vote for those who share their "values" but have no concept on what it takes to run a country. You think they would have learned their lesson with Bush.

I think that special kind of "magical" thinking it takes to really believe that talking to your hands will solve all your problems...is the kind that doesn't "need" to understand diddley about the complexities of running this country. They just want someone who is really good at talking to his hands....and all our problems will be solved.

No one but happily married people will ever have sex. Everyone will be straight and white and have 2.5 children who will all attend schools where they are led in prayers all day long and taught that they too, can just talk to their hands when they have a problem. No genuine education is needed, no effort, no experience, no intelligence...just ask the magical being to wave his wand and make the entire world into a cross between Stepford Wives and Pleasantville. It's where they feel safe (everyone has lots of guns) and where they feel unchallenged and right. It's where they never have to think about anything unpleasant or justify their beliefs or defend their behavior. After all, that's the "real" America that they are trying to get back to...before the liberals came and messed it all up.

Of course....it's only ever existed on T.V. or movies...but they don't care. And theists make up around 80% of the population, but over 99%, of the prison population, theists have a higher divorce rate than atheists, teens who make "virginity pledges" are just as likely to have sex, but less likely to have protected sex, and the most religious states are also the ones with the highest rates of teen mothers and highest violent crime rates...but still...those are just facts. They won't even stop to consider those. They are on a mission....

  • 4 votes
#1.5 - Sat Feb 11, 2012 5:15 AM EST
onefan51

Good post, NotKidding.

  • 1 vote
#1.6 - Sat Feb 11, 2012 10:21 AM EST
pinkcap

Good post NotKidding.

The religious right seems to think that prayer is the answer to everything and that God will answer every single prayer, but he doesn't. Good example - Bush. They prayed, he prayed and look what happened. What these people forget is that God gave everyone free will. He does not control every aspect of our lives. That means bad things will happen because someone made a bad decision. It's exactly what we do with our own children - we let them go, they make mistakes. Sometimes we can step in and help them, other times we can't. Other times, it's best to let them make mistakes and try to fix it themselves. It's how a person grows. God treats us the same way. He wants us to learn by our mistakes and grow. I believe that God answers prayers, but he can't answer every prayer and I don't think he wants to. He lets us live our lives and sometimes we will screw up. There are times he will step in and help us, other times, he won't.

Funny thing about the "real" America that the right wants to get back to - it was created by liberal policies, strong unions, and high taxes for the wealthy.

  • 2 votes
#1.7 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 4:33 PM EST
NotKidding

Funny thing about the "real" America that the right wants to get back to - it was created by liberal policies, strong unions, and high taxes for the wealthy.

Very true. I only wish we had focused more aggressively on education...we are reaping the results of that complacency now...

  • 1 vote
#1.8 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 6:44 PM EST
pinkcap

I agree. Conservative politicians play up to their base by telling them that being smart and educated is something to be scorned. They want to change history and science books to fit their "ideal" view of the world. It doesn't matter if it's true, it's what they want to believe so that they don't have to deal with reality. No child left behind has been so detrimental to our education system. I know of good teachers who have quit because teaching is no longer something they enjoy. They don't believe that teaching to take tests is real teaching and I have to agree. Our children will not be able to compete with foreign students who don't have to deal with a populace that wants to dumb them down.

  • 1 vote
#1.9 - Tue Feb 14, 2012 11:30 AM EST
Reply
RobPlumley

Good day,

Always like your seeds.

I think it would be a better survey if you included an option of your affiliation - Republican, Tea Partier, Independent, Libertarian, Democrat, Socialist, etc.

I'm not a Republican, but examining the news the last several months, I see not one group within the party demanding a clear plan forward, and what exactly do they expect a candidate would do differently other than the same failed policies that got us in this mess to begin with. I only hear, "We are on the wrong course", or "Obama's policies are hurting the recovery", and etc - no substance or thinking.

Do that extent, the base these candidates are pandering to care mostly about social conservatism, than the economy. The others in that party are too busy for such nonsense, and simply want a candidate that has a plan. What they get is nothing but lip service or no service at all. There have been many prominent retired Republicans that have admitted that this is not the party they belonged to.

So while the well-balanced Republicans tune off this campaign, what's left is a base that cares mostly about social conservatism. More unfortunate with whats left is the large percentage that harbors a lot of hatred toward our President.

I can hear it now by others saying that during the Bush years, there was just or even more hatred. I disagree! It wasn't hatred but sheer frustration and anger over his management and decision-making skills. It got more and more difficult to have any faith that his presidency was nothing more than one disaster after another - ultimately being the economy collapsing. That's not hatred but anger.

What gets me is the anger the Tea Party and large percentage of the Republican Party harbor at the President in that it is "your" party's policies that got us to this mess to begin with.

  • 8 votes
Reply#2 - Thu Feb 9, 2012 3:11 PM EST
Soph0571

I think it would be a better survey if you included an option of your affiliation - Republican, Tea Partier, Independent, Libertarian, Democrat, Socialist, etc.

I do that generally, but was on a train with patchy wireless. So wanted to get it up while I could!

  • 3 votes
#2.1 - Thu Feb 9, 2012 4:54 PM EST
Reply
Vlad's dog

It is so funny to hear Protestants argue for more church and state connections. They really should read more of the history of the Reformation to understand this was not what the first protestors wanted.

You can not evangilize through government unless you want to be more like Iran and Saudi Arabia.

  • 8 votes
Reply#3 - Thu Feb 9, 2012 3:29 PM EST
Zero-

too true vlad they need to think why in the sam hill there protestants to begin with

  • 3 votes
#3.1 - Thu Feb 9, 2012 3:50 PM EST
ryoushi12

Vlad, you are bumping up against TWO problems, first, american christians tend to be VERY ignorant about their own theology, and second, americans are for the most part historical illiterates and damn proud to be so.

This is why you have moron protestants actually SUPPORTING the catholic position that it should be able to IMPOSE its beliefs on workers who are employed at catholic owned businesses.

Calvin, Luther, Zwingli and the rest must be spinning at hyperdrive speeds by now.

  • 5 votes
#3.2 - Thu Feb 9, 2012 4:21 PM EST
Vlad's dog

Some of them don't even understand they are Protestants.

Some of my ancestors were anabaptists and came to Pennsylvania when it was first established to get away from the church/state powers who were murdering them and taking their property. Our family kept those stories alive and we heard them as children.

  • 5 votes
#3.3 - Thu Feb 9, 2012 5:08 PM EST
Reply
onefan51

Soph

I voted "don't know." All of the Republican candidates are "whack jobs." The GOP candidate must be defeated, whomever it is. There is no alternative.

  • 5 votes
Reply#4 - Thu Feb 9, 2012 3:55 PM EST
sunshine girl-685508

"What's Wrong With Kansas"- a great book that shows how blue collar, Middle America continue to vote against their economic interests and instead for emotional, religious reasons that as we can clearly see, will not be realized either.

This will never be a Christian nation i.e- laws, public policy and rights are decided by Christian doctrine. There may be some seeming small-scale victories from time to time in pockets of deep fundamentalism in the Bible Belt but the tide is continually shifting towards secularism.

So why not vote on pragmatic, common-benefit issues- jobs, economy, regulating corporate greed, education, health?

After all, you cannot praise God, teach Creationism and hate gays on an empty stomach can you?

  • 4 votes
Reply#5 - Thu Feb 9, 2012 4:03 PM EST
willard

Let's face it folks, the Boehner and McConnell obstacle course to destroy Obama was exposed by a number of factors - so they've nothing left. recent reports of 20% republicans leaning Obama in addition to the primary poor turnout is quite telling.

Reasonable republicans recognize that the entire field the GOP contenders were all frauds. I even ran into one of them - admittedly he's a racist and a bit ignorant, BUT he recognizes the idiots in the field and does understand that Boehner/McConnell had no interest in the recovery.

So we're back to the faux christian social value agenda. Vlad is correct. I have contended (even tho I'm a recovering christian) that the right is theology challenged maybe even stupid. Much of this comes from recent Polls including PEW and Duke. (Of course, one only needs to read local letters ot the ed to see how mis-informed they are too.)

  • 6 votes
Reply#6 - Thu Feb 9, 2012 4:11 PM EST
NotKidding

the right is theology challenged maybe even stupid

When their own party starts condemning education and intelligence as "elitist" (in effect calling their own base ignorant and stupid) and that base responds by agreeing and supporting that....and then running around repeating it as if it were something to be proud of....there's nothing left to do but shake your head in amazement. There's no hope of them ever understanding the inestimable damage they are doing.

  • 2 votes
#6.1 - Sat Feb 11, 2012 5:28 AM EST
Reply
markpup

It's interesting because I think collectively, the Republicans couldn't give a rat's butt about social values the goal is to protect the wealthy. But Santorum's one of the GOP minority who actually cares about that. And if you actually listen to what he says, he's actually suggested some social support for poor and middle class Americans because not only does he care about the social values a lot, but he doesn't care about the GOP economic platform all that much he's spouting the same line as the rest but it's obvious it's not where his interest is.

There's absolutely no snowball's chance in hell the establishment GOP's going to let him get very far. For the GOP it's really all about the money.

His specific social views are very far to the right anyway even by GOP standards. It's like turning back the clock 50 or 100 years. I'm enjoying the entertainment value of watching the party juggle with what to do with this stranger in their midst.

  • 3 votes
Reply#7 - Thu Feb 9, 2012 4:26 PM EST
Pat-#@!&!#@

Did you see Redsfan's article about 20% of Reps lean toward Obama? And that was from World Net Daily who conducted their own poll. Too funny.

Have you checked your NV email recently? I emailed you yesterday about an idea I have. I hope you let me know what you think.

(Sorry to go off topic).

  • 2 votes
Reply#8 - Thu Feb 9, 2012 11:05 PM EST
Soph0571

Got your mail.. couple of things, earnings already promised to a viner and I am not sure as a Brit I could donate? Legally I mean?

  • 1 vote
#8.1 - Sat Feb 11, 2012 5:17 PM EST
Pat-#@!&!#@

Thanks, Soph, I talked to AI and it seems the best idea is to send a check to One Wisconsin Now.

    #8.2 - Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:31 AM EST
    Reply
    Borncorn

    Playing the values card while Newt Gingrich is still in the running is just too transparent for most people. Go ahead GOP, make my day.

    • 3 votes
    Reply#9 - Fri Feb 10, 2012 9:02 AM EST
    Carol-500283

    If I were hiring a preacher, I'd worry about his/her values, BUT when I'm in the voting booth, church is not on my mind. Likewise, when I'm in the pew, I shouldn't be wondering about politics. One tells me the spiritial rules I should live by, the other the secular rules to live by. If I take my teachings from Sun. out into my life Mon.-Sat. and apply them, I don't need to be too concerned about the secular rules now should I?????? No one in government tells you, you have to: take birth control, get an abortion, drink alcohol, get married, or care for your neighbor. These are things YOU determine based on your "values" you get from your own "value" system, but they are available if and when you need them, if you CHOOSE. Tpubs-STAY OUT OF OURS PRIVATE LIVES!!!! And I agree with markpup, they don't CARE about those "values", but they do know it's a bone they can throw to the base that have no other idea of government, other than to use it to further their agenda- that everyone "believes their way". Just watch out if "their" way isn't "your" way!!

    • 3 votes
    Reply#10 - Fri Feb 10, 2012 11:18 AM EST
    keepfreepress

    None of the above. In a general election it will be more than a couple of issues that the majority will choose. It's counter productive for any political party to put all their hopes on one issue. Values voters have gotten it wrong on everything. They haven't gotten their way on a host of personal or social issues and they ended up with Bush/Cheney which was disastrous economically, bad for jobs. GOP voters blame other people for their own bad voting decisions & the outcome of their votes. They can't even pick a candidate to solidly get behind because none of the candidates have the solutions for a all Americans.

      Reply#11 - Sat Feb 11, 2012 10:39 AM EST
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