Why Young People Are Fleeing Conservative Evangelicalism

I'd say "fleeing" is in the eye of the beholder. There have been shifts in peoples' opinions/views over the years. Following most of the traditional advice given by religions and churches has been a good idea, and widespread abandonment of same has had bad results.

Reality is hard to deal with, unless you know what it is.

Or that people like swimming in de-nile.

This is why you see TV ads begging people to "come back to the Church"...they have gone way off the mainstream. Aside from the fact that they have and still protect pedophiles and science is proving the virgin birth thing was pretty much impossible.

I use the word God as a euphemism for the universe, yes we will all go back to dust we came from but it is biology not mumbo jumbo magic...

Following most of the traditional advice given by religions and churches has been a good idea, and widespread abandonment of same has had bad results.

Which results are these? I'm curious.

They're working to reconcile the pieces of their lives, asking, 'Who am I?' and 'What is my place in the world?'"

I fit into the cited generation, just barely, being an '83 baby... I remember the day I gave up on the Church... it was in a Bible study class when the instructor started preaching the Young-Earth line. Being an educated 13 year old, I raised my hand and asked him to explain fossils and dinosaurs. He said "Let's not talk about that, I will just say that Satan can be deceptive."

I laughed in his face at how ridiculous and evasive his response was to my question. It reeked of bullsh!t. That was the day I began to cast a critical eye on the dogma around me, and found over time that most all of it had the same stink of cop-outs, bullsh!t, baseless assertions, and outright deception.

I still hold Christians who follow Christ in a high regard, and think Jesus was a wise and compassionate philosopher. The sad truth is that very few people follow Christ; they only wear the member's jacket.

The greatest gift I received from my children last Xmas, after they spent the day with the religious side of the family, was them thanking me for not forcing them to participate in any religious activities when they were children. I was, and they all turned out better than I did.

Which results are these? I'm curious.

Well, I'd include various STD's, unwanted pregnancies, deaths/diseases/accidents from alcohol or drug abuse, among other problems. Most religions advise against these behaviors; sounds like good advice, even though some people may find it difficult or impossible to go along with.

Regarding fossils, I do believe the earth is as old as scientists say. The Bible does say that with God, one day is as a thousand years, and vice versa. I believe it's not right to tell God that He can't use evolution. In any case, I'm not going to use my own understanding of things as a basis for trashing the whole concept.

Well, I'd include various STD's, unwanted pregnancies, deaths/diseases/accidents from alcohol or drug abuse, among other problems. Most religions advise against these behaviors; sounds like good advice, even though some people may find it difficult or impossible to go along with.

Hmmm, I don't know of any life philosophy or ideology that promotes STD's, unwanted pregnancies, or drug abuse. Remember, things like condoms (contraceptives) are far more effective at combatting STD's and unwanted pregnancies in a population than abstinence promotion ever could be.... abstinence would work if humans weren't humans and actually practiced it.

Religion isn't necessary for morality or safe practices. I agree that Churches do indeed promote these practices, but any rational atheist would as well - the approach would be the only difference; and it's the approach on which they disagree.

Most religions/churches have had this advice from the start. All too often, people ridicule or ignore it until they suffered because they chose to do so. If nothing else, the advice is good no matter where it comes from.

Let's be very clear about something . . . .

Well, I'd include various STD's, unwanted pregnancies, deaths/diseases/accidents from alcohol or drug abuse, among other problems. Most religions advise against these behaviors; sounds like good advice, even though some people may find it difficult or impossible to go along with.

During my 20+ years of nursing, I've cared for MANY a religious person. . . so-called "conservative Christian" people. . . who suffered from the effects of advanced alcoholism and drug abuse. Also, STDs know no boundaries. It appears that so-called "conservative Christian" people seem to experience the same incidence rates of getting STDs as the more "secular" people. Depression? Last I read, it's pretty high amongst so-called "Evangelicals". This sad reality takes place despite the political/religious dogma and ideology saying to the contrary.

Just want to put a reality check the notion that practicing religion is THE ANSWER to achieving good health.

I'd say christian-conservatives closing their eyes to the fact that young people are fleeing fright-wing religion is just fine by me. If you have seen the you-tube sensation "why I hate religion but love Jesus" I would say that this poem sums it up quite nicely.

Shuklack,

I remember the day I gave up on the Church... it was in a Bible study class when the instructor started preaching the Young-Earth line. Being an educated 13 year old, I raised my hand and asked him to explain fossils and dinosaurs

I'd have given you the simple answer that as a believer, God created man, woman and all the creatures of the earth. It is written that God created man and woman in his likeness. His likeness it defined by man when in reality God is all to all. It's too bad you had someone who didn't understand this teaching you.

I will not expand upon this or reply further on the subject.

ICUNurse, nobody's perfect.

Christianity in this country and around the world does a lot for charrity.

Sad to see such pessimism.

I'd have given you the simple answer that as a believer, God created man, woman and all the creatures of the earth.

God created man, man created religion.

I'd have given you the simple answer that as a believer, God created man, woman and all the creatures of the earth. It is written that God created man and woman in his likeness. His likeness it defined by man when in reality God is all to all. It's too bad you had someone who didn't understand this teaching you.

I will not expand upon this or reply further on the subject.

Being as your reply doesnt even start to answer the question, buckeyenut, it is wise not to respond further. There is already enough sky fairy bull@!$%# on NV.

Why do you think Republicans are making it harder for college kids to vote? No NEW young Republicans. The kids these days are getting harder to brainwash unlike those who listen to FOXNews or Lush Limpballs.

evangelical and Catholic Christianity is the bane of civilization...their belief systems are useless in a world of instant communications, mass realization of individuals in their place in time and space on a global scale, and through direct observation that organized religion is only about money, and by that domination

Why Young People Are Fleeing Conservative Evangelicalism

The people are opening their eyes and seeing church and religion for the con-job that it truly is. If any god was going to save the people, it sure is taking its good ole sweet time in saving all the starving children of the world by now.

The people can see and read about how church and religion is a business and ran by charlatans looking for fools to join so they can continue living off your money instead of getting a real job and supporting themselves.

If there is a god and heaven as they teach and brainwash people into believing. Then why does all the sick religious people run to the doctor's office to deprive them from going there searching for a medical healing and cure?

Men and Women all help people, not your bs invisible god that you have been brainwashed into believing in.

TAX all church and religions and end their free ride in America, or shut them all down.

REVOLUTION 2012

Arieus....I believe in God, but I do agree with you on Tax the churches....why are they so special?

Punitive Churches

Doomsday Republicans

Do Nothing Congress with 10% "approval"

...... I'm glad it's Friday

Being as your reply doesnt even start to answer the question, buckeyenut, it is wise not to respond further. There is already enough sky fairy bull@!$%# on NV.

There is also far too much "I can find all the answers within myself" overweening intellectual pride bull@!$%# on the vine. Don't get me wrong - most atheists are delightful. I just can't stomach the wannabe Christopher Hitchens people - they tend to have all the maturity of a college sophomore, with the intellectual depth of one to boot!

Nonetheless, I've said it before and I'll say it again - to reform the church from the inside is a difficult, almost quixotic task, but it is one of the most important jobs we have. And I know a lot of young people who ARE heavily involved in religion. They just don't have a lot of tolerance for the dogmas that don't apply in the 21st century - they want the social justice message, they want the salvation and forgiveness message. They don't want the legalistic message. Didn't Jesus tend to clash more with the Pharisees and Scribes than with anyone else? We need to do similar work ourselves. Dead faith can be a weapon for the elites and the powerful. Alive religion can be a powerful weapon for the hopeless. Who has militant atheism helped in history? (Besides Kim Jong Il, I mean.)

Men and Women all help people, not your bs invisible god that you have been brainwashed into believing in.

Why would you suggest that not being able to see something makes it bs? Science is full of things you "can't see" but that do in fact exist. God is one of the names humans gave their creator, do you deny that you exist? Nobody understands what "God" is or where or how. Perhaps "God" was a "big bang", or nature, or perhaps something we are not capable of understanding with the knowledge available to us.

I agree some "religions" do cross the line into brainwashing, as do some atheists. And notice that I didn't have to insult your beliefs to express my own.

Rational Brent wrote:

ICUNurse, nobody's perfect.

Christianity in this country and around the world does a lot for charrity.

Sad to see such pessimism.

Who's being pessimistic?!? Not me. I'm just attempting to put a reality check to an issue that deserves scrutiny. As it stands, the political pull from the so-called "religious right" weighs heavy on our country's political system. Governmental laws are made, in no small part, by the unfortunate influence that the so-called "Christian Right" has on our politics. It's as plan as the cancerous growth on a person suffering from advanced stages of untreated melanoma. Most recently is this whole mess concerning religious-based healthcare facilities and contraception. I would argue that ANY organization (religious or non-religious) that doesn't see the merits in providing contraception is to be considered hazardous to the general health of our country's citizenry.

I'm a practician Christian. I KNOW the good and benefits that the Christian religion has provided the world throughout the years. I'm also painfully aware of the evil it's provided too. As was said, "no body's perfect".

I ache for truth. We all should! I ache for truth in no small part because of my Christian upbringing! Right now, it seems that hierarchy found within certain denominations within the Christian religion is being far from truthful not only with the congregations they serve but with themselves. Not good. It especially isn't good as they continue to shove their dysfunctional ideologies and dogmas on our country's politics.

Got to keep it real. The ONLY way to rid one's self of a disease is to first recognize that it's there.

If a church. . . or any organization. . . is dysfunctional, then it's quite healthy to "flee" from it. It seems that some youth involved with some questionable churches are taking good care of themselves and fleeing. Good for them!

izmee,

I stated ''as a BELIEVER" not as a person in general or as an athiest. You see, when you are in a bible class, generally speaking you are among believers. As a believer in God, people are taught that God created all things.

I'm not asking you as a non believer to believe this and it did answer the question just not to your liking. It doesn't make me right or you wrong. It just proves a difference of opinion.

Reading comprehension is a science too. It must be because there are so few who truly understand it and how it works.

thinkin,

"God created man, man created religion."

Agreed.

buckeyenut-2225921 Reading comprehension is a science too. It must be because there are so few who truly understand it and how it works.

It isn't often that I agree with you buckey, but I do have to agree with the above statement. I am however having a hard time comprehending something that you wrote earlier and was wondering if you could help me out.

buckeyenut-2225921 I will not expand upon this or reply further on the subject.

. . . man created religion.

Interestingly, it's been said that religion developed as part of the evolutionary process of humankind. It could very well be that our mutating genes helped create the phenomenon of religion.

thinkin,

I know :( I said I wouldn't then I did but someone who I was not having a discussion with entered the discussion uninvited. I can't let that go.

I feel ya buckey, I just couldn't resist razzing you over it. =)

thinkn,

I know. I opened myself up to it. Arrrrrrrrgh!

AmericanMao,

If you have nothing intelligent to add that is topic related, please just move on and let the adults have the conversation.

Soph,

Come on! I wanted to have some fun.

*sniff*

How do you report suspected re-regs again?

Just being facetious, Soph. I could mention pedophile priests and wait to see if my windows rattle.

so-called "conservative Christian" people. . . who suffered from the effects of advanced alcoholism and drug abuse. Also, STDs know no boundaries. It appears that so-called "conservative Christian" people seem to experience the same incidence rates of getting STDs as the more "secular" people. Depression? Last I read, it's pretty high amongst so-called "Evangelicals". This sad reality takes place despite the political/religious dogma and ideology saying to the contrary.

Some people don't believe in fallowing what they believeand no one is perfect. The largest part of the problem with teen pregnancy is parents are too shy to talk to their kids about sex. My mother was very blunt and mater of fact about it (part of that is she was a nurse). You cant run from talking to your kids about things and you cant over react to their issues.

I didn't have sex before marriage and everything has worked out great and we also dated for three months before I purposed and waited another three before we got married. I have found marriage is easy you just have to be willing to sacrifice (mutually) and talk with respect to the others feelings. You also have to continue to act like your dating in the way you treat each other.

Also you can still get pregnant birth control. If your not ready for the consequences for your actions your not ready to do it (and that goes for everything in life).

thinknaboutit,

I listened to the poem and it pretty much sums up how I've felt about religion for many years. I can see why young people are fleeing their religion in search of truth and something better. Thanks for posting the video.

why? for higher moral ground, simple as that.

Auto 101 wrote -

Some people don't believe in fallowing what they believeand no one is perfect. The largest part of the problem with teen pregnancy is parents are too shy to talk to their kids about sex. My mother was very blunt and mater of fact about it (part of that is she was a nurse). You cant run from talking to your kids about things and you cant over react to their issues.

I didn't have sex before marriage and everything has worked out great and we also dated for three months before I purposed and waited another three before we got married. I have found marriage is easy you just have to be willing to sacrifice (mutually) and talk with respect to the others feelings. You also have to continue to act like your dating in the way you treat each other.

. . . and also wrote. . . .

Also you can still get pregnant birth control. If your not ready for the consequences for your actions your not ready to do it (and that goes for everything in life).

Auto 101, you shared some very profound thoughts and ideas. First, it is nice to see that you seem happy with the choices that you made in life. I wish you a life time of Peace and fulfilled dreams as you continue on with your marriage. My wife and I have been married, now, for over 25 years. We certainly are not perfect, but we're very much in love with each other. We have been content and faithful to each other during our marriage. Our love and commitment to our ourselves as a couple and as individuals seems to have grown throughout the years. I sincerely hope for the same for your and your spouse.

Without a doubt, parents SHOULD be very involved with upbringing of their children. Communication should be open, honest and frank. This includes discussions on sex and life and death. Abstinence, certainly, is one choice to take and has its place in that discussion on sex. There are other choices, too, that helps prevent the spreading of diseases and unwanted pregnancies. Equally, those choices should be presented in the conversation as well. In my mind, it does come down to good health and safety. Well intentioned people may have had plans to remain abstinent until marriage but never realized that goal. Sadly, those "well intentioned" people found themselves with some pretty nasty diseases. So discussion of sex, in my mind, must include contraception. In my mind, the discussion should also include responsibility and accountability.

You are correct in saying that unwanted pregnancies and the spreading of disease have taken place despite the use of contraception. But this can usually be traced back to the incorrect use of contraception or using the wrong one to prevent the spreading of disease. The statistics are staggeringly high that when the correct contraception are used correctly unwanted pregnancies will be prevented and the spreading of diseases will be stopped. For example, birth control pills will not prevent the spreading of STDs. Condoms do. The female must take her birth control pills FAITHFULLY each and every day as prescribed otherwise the risk for unwanted pregnancies rises. The male must ensure that condoms are used correctly and is on during the entire "intimate act" otherwise the spreading of diseases is likely to take place. This is where responsibility and accountability comes in.

Peace to you, Auto 101. Peace to us all. . . .

People are 'fleeing' because they are figuring out that: religion never improved anything that could not be improved without religion, and religion can do an awful lot of harm.

Take away religion and a lot of problems go away. Poof!

Okay.

Well first off, I'd really like to know how one can be a conservative Christian ?? Jesus Christ is so radical to the beliefs of Judaism, that in comparison He is a Liberal.

So since Christ is a Jew, and Christianity is the completion of the The Holy Bible. How does one become a conservative Christian ?? Now if one is speaking of the beliefs they hold as being tied to The Holy Bible including the Old and New Testament. One is not being conservative or liberal one is a Bible believing follower.

Conservative or liberal is based upon what one chooses to reject or accept of God's word. I believe in all of His word, even if I can not understand it all, He gives me what I need when I need it and I am able to handle it in the Way He chooses for me as His servant.

I love liberally, listen liberally, hear liberally, discern through His Holy Spirit, speak of the moderation of behaviors based upon how He leads me to live and what He shows me.

Conserving to me means holding back. When one says they are a conservative to me. I think they are holding things back and are repressed. I'm not repressed, I'm a free man in Jesus Christ who chooses to serve Him because He is my King and LORD. Not because I want to appear holy and are trying to hide what I really am.

Have I sinned ?? Yes, do I still sin today ?? Yes, do I enjoy it ?? NO !! It hurts me when I sin. I know He paid for all my sins and to continue to commit them after accepting Him, well it is like watching Him being beaten and knowing I am causing it.

I guess I'm a liberal in that I believe in Him and all He did for me, so I want to do for Him because He did for me first. I know I'm not good enough without Him, so I don't have to a conservative and think that my way of living makes me good enough. He makes me acceptable and changes me.

That is why young people are fleeing the church, they see the conservatives who are worse than them preaching about immorality, while they worship money, sleep with their neighbors' wife or husband and then call them selves worthy of Christ.

Just want to put a reality check the notion that practicing religion is THE ANSWER to achieving good health.

Obviously there is no guarantee, but avoiding the behaviors that are cautioned against, provides a much better basis for good health. Really practicing these various instructions is a lot more difficult than claiming or pretending to, and it's a lot easier to point at failures (there will always be some) as rationale for "doing your own thing".

This a fair comment that deserves more discussion -

. . . . avoiding the behaviors that are cautioned against, provides a much better basis for good health. Really practicing these various instructions is a lot more difficult than claiming or pretending to, and it's a lot easier to point at failures (there will always be some) as rationale for "doing your own thing".

The easiest solution to suggest is to instruct to do nothing: abstinence. The concept of practicing abstinence or "avoiding the behaviors" has been around for as long as mankind has been in existence. Take a look down a crowded road of a crowded city. Take a look at the SIZE of those crowded cities. Take a look at the growing population of the world. Preaching abstinence only ain't working! This bares repeating again: Preaching Abstinence Only AIN'T WORKING!!!

No one should argue that abstinence is one option to prevent unwanted pregnancies and prevent the spreading of STDs. But it should not be the only option. To do so would not only be irresponsible, but it would be a health hazard!

Teaching is teaching. Learning is learning. People learn how to drive cars. People can learn how to cook food. People can learn how to operate a computer. People learn how to take their vitamin pills and medications. It is not unreasonable to teach proper use of contraception so that people can LEARN how to use them correctly. To deny people these teaching/learning opportunities is wrong. And to be very clear, I confidently and comfortably say this as both a healthcare professional and as an individual who is an active Christian.

Maybe what's happening here is what just happened in Ireland. After decades of clergy sexual abuse of children in Catholic schools and orphanages, and decades of Vatican denial and cover up, they stopped diplomatic ties with the Vatican. The Irish Catholic Church is having serious problems with little or no recruitment of Irish for the clergy and the attendance on Sunday has been substantially decreased. Irish youth is as sexual as young people through most of Europe, the UK, Canada, Australia and America and have no reservations about using birth control/condoms.

That's what happens when to stick to ancient dogma and don't move into the 21st century.

Honestly? It's true for emotional growth as well ICU.

My parents and I were talking about "sex" since I was a little kid. I mean, not the nitty gritty basics of it!- It started with: "Mommies and Daddies need their 'Alone Nights'" with, of course no explanation as to "why" (LOL) and slowly built over time from there.

When I became an adult, my mother and I talked about even where "those" conversations came from as well too- and yes, it made sense because, I will never forget what she said:

When we talk to kids about war and bullies and fighting and "Stranger Danger" and everything else that we know to be complex and adult- we always simplify it to that child's age and mental development for that conversation because we always know that we're going to "get back around to it" eventually for more conversations about whatever that subject is than we can even count throughout their entire lives....

So, why in the hell is it that the most complex and important subject of them all is the one subject we always seems to think that we're only ever going to have with our children once?

It's not just sex. It's not just birth control. It's not just hygiene. It's not just STDs. It's not just relationships. It's not just marriage. It's not just giving birth. It's not just relationships. It's not just romance. It's everything. It's everything about being human. It's everything about connecting with that other person in a way you just can't and never can with anyone else. It's everything about finding that partner that is just as perfect for you as you are for them...

Frankly? I think she was right.

I've never had an STD- never had an unwanted pregnancy- I've dated quite a few losers in my time and, even been "the loser" a couple times myself... But, even with the absolute worst of the lot, I still don't regret anyone I have ever kissed (or, in some instances more). I still smile a bit in memory whenever I think about the one I had my first time with...

And I certainly grin whenever I think of the sweetie that I have been with now for over ten years who still makes me laugh- and supports me- even to the point of hounding my lazy butt whenever I start to give up... Who still, after ten years loves to snuggle up on the couch or bed with me in our pajamas and watch movies- or who, still gives me time enough to get my outfit or my makeup just right for just going to a movie...

He really is the perfect partner for me... In fact? My biggest gripe is- how in the seven hells can such a wonderful guy consider me even remotely perfect for him- but, since his story hasn't changed one iota in over a decade, I guess I just gotta believe he was dropped on his head or something....

Anyway, the point is that it's not just physical health that I'm beginning to get a little annoyed with about all of this "let's be against sex" crap- it's mental too. I mean, these people who are all for this "abstinence only" BS are setting these kids up for every horror that your worst relationship could ever even dream of and, for many of them, for the rest of their lives as well!!!

That's the part that I just don't get because, they're not just cursing these "unexpected mothers," they are cursing their soon-to-be husbands or exs-to-come, they're cursing these children with a cycle of ignorance and betrayl- sometimes even violence and muder- they are cursing everyone with all of it. Forever.

"You have to learn how to ride a bike. You have to learn how to drive a car. You have to learn how to walk.... Of course you have to learn how to be in a good relationship!....Relationships that don't work out?... That's just like falling off of your bike because you didn't know how to steer around something... That doesn't mean that you're just going to give up your bike though, does it?"

-My Mother: too many times to count growing up....

ICUNurse, nobody's perfect.

This is why running around scolding everyone else about their failings is a bad idea.

Unless, said scolder actually IS perfect. As we can see, that is pretty much never the case. When Christianity reliably can turn out perfect, spotless individuals who never suffer from their human failings, you just let the rest of us know.

Until then, those with the desire to remove motes from their neighbors' eyes should attend to the rather unwieldy beams in their own. M'kay?

Preaching Abstinence Only AIN'T WORKING!!!

From your own observations, it sounds like absolutely nothing works. All I've pointed out is that those who follow the Bible's "preaching" on behaviors to avoid, will improve their odds. Those who don't, for whatever reason(s), will too often see a corresponding decrease.

Preaching. . . "Abstinence Only" . . . is NOT working. . .

Preaching "Abstinence Only". . . . is a health hazard and is irresponsible. Just as many so-called "conservative Chrisitians" engage in out-of-marriage sex than "non-conservative" folks. To believe differently is dangerous.

Enough said.

Sadly West only understands half of religion.

There's only 'salvation' religion: submission to higher authority to gain salvation.

This of course means submission to so called God's representatives on Earth. Which makes it perfect for controlling those susceptible to suggestion.

But in East there's also 'enlightenment' religion: enlightenment through search for knowledge and wisdom.

This makes Buddhism, Taoism, Hinduism perfect for scientists and artists.

I think a lot of the difference has to do with the areas of origin. It's hard to believe in a kind loving higher power and especially yourself when the world you live it had little regard for human life.

The sheer beauty of vegetation and such in other areas would fit into their own exploration of what was out there on the other side. One knew a deadly world. One knew of on a bit kinder to life. That would reflect in the development of their worship. Since they had no knowledge of chemical reactions they could not see, atom movement they didn't know existed, and had no clue what the space around them really looked like, "god" did it was as good as an answer which with they could come up.

Spirit,

I think a lot of the difference has to do with the areas of origin. It's hard to believe in a kind loving higher power and especially yourself when the world you live it had little regard for human life.

You're right in that it doesn't help but... the truth is that many studies have already proven that the Authoritative Personality is also- well, independent of anything like upbringing, culture, language, or whatever. In fact, last I had read, they were still trying to locate the "source" of it because, let's face facts: it really is a form of mental illness.

I mean, anything that has so many outright anti-social constants- is a mental illness.

Hatred and violence against women and even children upon occasion- violent reactions to anything (including reality) that even question much less undermine their world-views- requirement of a "them" to be able to hate- even when it must be fictional in origin....

Actually, while I think that "Nurture" can indeed create these "Fundamentalists" (their usual preferred name regardless of culture, creed, religion, language, country....) I honestly have to agree with those studies that prove that it crops up everywhere regardless then, the only explanation for some of it is- well, some are just born that way.

My only question is: why are we letting these people run so rampant that they can infect others?

I mean, lately, it seems like we are bound and determined to just hand over the keys to the city to people like Charles Manson and all of his "Family" because we keep telling ourselves that it's a "valid religion" rather than acknowledge it as the illness that it is!

You must feel sympathy for them. Only those that have had their humanity stolen from them will be able to act so inhumane. They are told they are defective. They are human. There are sinful.

The original sin dogma and holding on to old personal sayings as fact is like a deadly virus in our world. It most likely won't kill the carrier but the rest of us are fair game ;(