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On Wednesday night we reached the high and the low, so far, in the debate over the Obama administration’s requirement that Catholic institutions that employ non-Catholics include contraception coverage in their health insurance policies.
The high, in terms of reason and clarity, came from famed attorney David Boies on MSNBC’s “The Last Word.” Lawrence O’Donnell has let male “liberal” pundits like Mark Shields wax a little shrill on his show, but to his credit, he offered the best rebuttal to all the shrieking I’ve seen so far: Boies calmly and clearly explaining the new regulations as an issue of labor law, and the government’s regulation of employers (relatively minimal, compared to other countries) on issues of health, safety and non-discrimination.
I’ve tried to make the same points: What if Catholics didn’t believe in child labor laws? Would we let church-run agencies flout them? Boies used the example of a religion that believed people shouldn’t work after age 60: Could they legally ban older people from employment? Of course, they could do neither. This is indeed an issue of religious freedom: the freedom of non-Catholics not to be bound by the dictates of the Catholic Church in the workplace.
Reason vs. hysteria in the birth control debate
Article Source: Salon.com
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Of course, the very same night, the re-surging Rick Santorum offered the most shrill and hysterical reaction to the White House ruling, and in a week of shrillness and hysteria, that’s saying a lot. Santorum actually said that President Obama’s contraception ruling meant we are “headed down [the] road” to the French Revolution and the “guillotine.” That’s below, too.
- 5 votes
#1 - Fri Feb 10, 2012 5:15 AM ESTBirth control is the best medicine in the fight against unwanted pregnancies and abortion...making it even more readily available, and affordable, is only common sense.
- 5 votes
Soph my love, this should really be a non-issue but the republicans have nothing left to go after Obama on so whipping the RW into a religious frenzy is all they have left.
Really pretty pathetic!
What kills me is that these same insurance policies will pay for Viagra which is used primarily for men who are frankly out of the breeding pool and just want to be able to have some fun. But, they won't provide a woman the ability to protect themselves from the possible results of that fun.
- 5 votes
Soph,
From what I've seen over the last 24 hours, there is no reason when social issues are discussed. That is exactly why I am against social issues being discussed in politics. The politicians use these social issues to divide us and than after the election, they magically disappear.
CPO
HappyToSeeYa posted yesterday that birth control coverage should be mandatory for any policy that includes viagra. That is rational. Not all plans cover viagra.
- 1 vote
Birth control is the best medicine in the fight against unwanted pregnancies and abortion.
Also rational, but the church feels that birth control goes against thier core beliefs. You might not feel that is rational but to them it is. It's not rational against hyseteria. It's those who have one set of beliefs vs those with another set of beliefs. Neither side is really wrong.
soph,
"“headed down [the] road” to the French Revolution and the “guillotine.”
I would say the guillotine is a bit extreme since we can't even give a person the electric chair in this country for murder. But I'd have to agree that revolution is distinctly possible and most certainly when we have rich vs poor and catholic vs others politics at hand dividing us. Am I wrong?
- 2 votes
CPOSharkey Really pretty pathetic!
Have to thank the calm and cool and always reasonable CPO :-) who's voice accents mine as well. Every women should be in charge of their own body, any other statement is share croppers for the PX company's, are religious zealots, who feel they have the right to tell everyone else what and how to live your life their way
- 5 votes
buckeye - I should have said those insurance policies that do cover viagra, which a majority of them do.
StevG - great to see ya!
- 4 votes
Every women should be in charge of their own body
Absolutely! And when a person is "in charge" sometimes that person has to pay for things out of their own pocket to make sure things get done properly.
On a different topic, can someone tell me how to put in a disclaimer/sig line for my user name? It sure would be helpful.
- 1 vote
Soph,
From what I've seen over the last 24 hours, there is no reason when social issues are discussed.
Ain't that the truth...seems that all associated brain cells leave the building!
- 5 votes
I've got a better point.What if catholics realized that the head of their faith wasn't even Christian,which is historically verifiable,and what if everyone learned that religion is a device of satanists to divide the masses,as communism,fascism and capitalism are.And what if everyone just quit believing bull@!$%#,which governments are,and major media,which governments own,and the Rothschilds who try to hide in the shadows while they own the governments?There's an awakening going on and it's way better to be part of it than to sit back and wait.I'm glad my future isn't in someone else's hands.
- 1 vote
#2 - Fri Feb 10, 2012 6:12 AM ESTI'm glad my future isn't in someone else's hands.
If you believe in freedom and are willing to fight for it, it never was in the hands of another.
"What if Catholics didn't believe in child labor laws"
You mean like the Amish?
#3 - Fri Feb 10, 2012 7:24 AM ESTThe hypocrisy is getting a bit thick about this. OTOH, you have right wing screamers predicting the end of America if we recognize Sharia law, otoh, the same people predict the end of America if we don't recognize Catholic law. Religious law is religious law, and none of it should be forced on America, period. What is sauce for the goose remains sauce for the gander.
- 4 votes
#4 - Fri Feb 10, 2012 7:36 AM ESTDavid,
Are you really that guy in the Nationwide commercial? "on the other hand"
- 1 vote
Didn't you enjoy it? Don't ask me how I did it, it's a trade secret.
- 1 vote
The way I see it everyone is wrong on this issue. Catholics have no right to force their church's edits on individuals. These are the "church's" edicts, not Gods.
Regardless of women's needs, the Obama Administration has no right to infringe on religion, or individual rights. To me, birth control is not the issue here. The Constitution, and the priciples on which this nation is established, is for the protection of individual rights. Both the rights of women, and the rights of churches are Bill of Rights issues and the Obama Administration has sworn to stay out of individual constitutional rights based on their oath of office. If a woman wants birth control, it is her right to seek it out. If a woman does not want birth control it is also her right. The Obama Administration has no business trying to overthrow our Constitution and meddle in these issues.
- 1 vote
#5 - Fri Feb 10, 2012 9:24 AM ESTThe Church has a perfect right not to be an employer. As it is, only priests don't use birth control, Catholic women ignore the edict.
- 2 votes
Hmmm, this has nothing to do with what I'm saying and priests wouldn't use birth control, even if they wanted to.
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