Who is it that gets into heaven? Or, by extension, who is that is going to hell?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zp3aAvorZcw

Of course this is pre-supposing you believe in the after life construct at all!

Soph,

Do you or don't you believe in 'the after life construct'?

4 votes

#1.3 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:46 PM EST

Fla Pat

Maybe this will clear it up, I think we all get there eventually.

2 votes

#1.4 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:50 PM EST

Does one really believe that God is a petty God who will determine one's after life by one's faith structure in the here and now?

It is GOD's Heaven, so He has the right to determine what the conditions are to entrance and admission.

GOD makes it plain that "God so loved the whole world," Hindus, Buddhists, Muslims, everyone who was ever born a human being. For whom "He gave His only begotten Son".

Jesus Christ said, that "anyone who believes in the Son of GOD will not perish, but have Eternal Life." John 3:16 Anyone who believes. Anyone.

"but anyone who does not believe shall be damned." Mark 16:16. Anyone who does not believe. Anyone.

I don't think He could have made it any clearer.

Or does one believe that there are many paths to God

Again, Jesus Christ said, "I am The Way, The Truth, and The Life. No one comes to The Father, but by Me." John 14:6.

With that in mind, how can anyone think that there are 'many paths to GOD'? Especially one who claims he or she is a christian.

3 votes

#1.5 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 1:04 PM EST

Vis Major

Rank, if you read a different book you see different rules.

10 votes

#1.6 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 1:09 PM EST

Rank, if you read a different book you see different rules.

Vis Major,

Not if you are a Christian who believes the Bible and follows Jesus Christ's teachings.

3 votes

#1.7 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 1:12 PM EST

knightofdespair

I have thought about this a lot.... 70% of the world is non christian, many christians are the worst offenders out there...

I was raised Mormon, who believe that we are basically all being prepared for eventual Godhood if we live right, however these are the same dingbats who intend to vote Romney en masse without a second qualm. Many other religions have no real message about what awaits us.

I have often wondered if this world may well be like the matrix, a virtual construct designed to test our mettle and determine who among us actually cares about each other, who has manners, who respects education and achievement, who has tact and poise and common decency. In almost every religion the fundamental thrust is to treat our fellow people kindly and do what we can for them, yet no country in the world actually achieves a solid brotherhood where everyone gets along with no murder, theft, and inequality. I have a hard time believing any God would create 7 billion people with full intentions of throwing 99% of them in the trash, I think if people have a good heart and treat one another decently then that is the most important measure, regardless of what church they go to or how they pray.

The truth is until we die, nobody really knows for sure. The rules and gates are barred from us and will not give away their secrets to anybody for fame or money, I truly hope there is something amazing awaiting us after death though, how sad if this is all we get and 99% of us spend it waiting hours a day in traffic, slaving away for bankers, and starving so others can feast until they puke.

7 votes

#1.8 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 1:27 PM EST

douglasq

Of course this is pre-supposing you believe in the after life construct at all!

I was really surprised to hear my mom, who was raised Catholic, married in St. Patricks in NY and stared down breast cancer (twice) say she does not believe there was anything after death. Even though I am pretty much an atheist, I'm not 100% sure death is an end rather than just a transition. But I definitely do not believe in the contemporary Christian notion of harps, wings and robes and clouds.

5 votes

#1.9 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 1:54 PM EST

Soph0571

Soph,

Do you or don't you believe in 'the after life construct'?

I do of course! The reason for this article was a discussion about my faith with Jj last weekend. How as an individual who found redemption at the cross I find it increasingly difficult to believe that everyone else is condemned for eternity. That although raised in the belief that there is only one path to redemption as I get older I cannot believe that to be the case

4 votes

#1.10 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 1:54 PM EST

thisbusymonster

"but anyone who does not believe shall be damned." Mark 16:16. Anyone who does not believe. Anyone.

My only problem with this statement is . . . that book was written by people, not God. There are a lot of fairy tales out there. This particular fairy tale is no more special than any other. It certainly has no factual basis to recommend it.

But boy, do a lot of people sure get violent if you don't agree with the fairy tale. They get hateful. They get mean. They get vicious.

And I stay away from them.

4 votes

#1.11 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 2:29 PM EST

ryoushi12

The only opinion I have on this is IF there is some existance beyond bodily death, I want to spend it AWAY from everybody who THINKS they know where they belong.

4 votes

#1.12 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 2:36 PM EST

King Dave

It's too bad atheists don't believe there is a heaven, because perhaps they would be the only ones to get in, based on merits alone.

8 votes

#1.13 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 3:42 PM EST

landspirit

The problem of who goes where and why, is one that exposes a huge chasm of misunderstanding and assumptions. The different religions are just different sets of rules that have their origin in different cultures that valued and saw life in unique ways. Religion has been used for thousands of years to channel behavior of humans into paths that were considered healthy for survival and contrary to the likely genetic behavioral origin. Religion has also been used by men to control and manipulate populations.

However, God is not a religion. Allah is not a religion. It becomes hard to explain because religion and God have become so intertwined that the reality one is not the other is lost in the myriad somewhere. Add to that what is heaven and what is hell, and it gets even worse. A person's behavior in one religion may be seen as sheer evil in another religion. So one has to pick God out from the mess.

Then there is the concept of 'judgement'. What men see and associate with judgement is not what God's definition of it is. Men are limited by the neural circuitry of their brains. God is not. Judgement is not like we see it at all. The only thing I can say is that each person takes complete responsibility for his behavior and the choices he makes. It is different than being judged for that behavior. And then there is our misunderstanding or rather under understanding of love. What we see as love, is like a pin drop of what love truly is. When one is 'judged' it is being done by something that loves you completely. Everything is stripped away but the essence of a person, perhaps his soul. Think of the innocent little 2 year old compared to the hardened mind of a 40 year old. The innocent 2 year old is what God sees. This is what you are to him. The innocence in all its beauty of simple love and acceptance is what God reaches in and plucks out from the mess of your life and survival. That is why Jesus said to let the children come to him, for such as they are the kingdom of heaven. Still one has to also wonder about those born without empathy and conscience. One has to wonder about those who are literally genetically wired to be killers. I don't have the answers.

Yet I think there is a heaven, and there is a hell. I saw a glimpse of hell and it made me sick to my stomach immediately. It is hard to explain what it is I saw. A man can only describe what he sees by what he knows. That is why the chapter of Revelations seems weird. A man is trying to describe to others something he saw in the future with the images and understanding he has. He has not ever seen a car before or an airplane or any of the technology or weapons and what those weapons are. The future is being described in Revelations by the understanding and imagery available thousands of years ago.

2 votes

#1.14 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 3:47 PM EST

landspirit

King Dave

because perhaps they would be the only ones to get in, based on merits alone.

Amen to that. Atheists have no need for a religion or the threat of ending up in a hell to control their behavior. They are in charge of their behavior. So perhaps they are in a a higher behavioral place than those who need religion or use religion to justify or condemn behavior.

2 votes

#1.15 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 3:51 PM EST

SPECTACULARARAB

Sill believe that there is hell or heaven?

My goodness with all the technologies and education, status quo changed none really.

1 vote

#1.16 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 3:56 PM EST

http://inhumanvesture.newsvine.com/_news/2012/01/08/10047136-6-million-muslims-convert-to-christianity-yearly

How as an individual who found redemption at the cross

Dear Soph, You don't know I thrilled and relieved I am to hear you say that.

That although raised in the belief that there is only one path to redemption as I get older I cannot believe that to be the case

God's work is not done yet. 'The Gospel must be preached throughout the whole world as a witness. Then shall the end come.' Matthew 24:14

Just because many in the West have seemed at this time to have rejected the Gospel, it doesn't mean that those billions of unbelievers, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, or Agnostics who have yet to hear the Gospel won't believe when it is fully preached to them. Either now or in the dispensations that are soon coming.

I find it increasingly difficult to believe that everyone else is condemned for eternity.

Now is no time to doubt. Pray for them.

For example, 6 million Muslims in Africa are convert to Christianity every year, according Muslim Arabs' own sources.

As it is written: 'To whom He was not spoken of, they shall see: and those who have not yet heard shall understand.' Romans 15:21

#1.17 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 4:50 PM EST

James-316346

Nobody is going anywhere. You die. The brutal and beautiful truth is that your death is final for you. Its over and you are not coming back.

4 votes

#1.18 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 6:13 PM EST

Stop The Hypocrisy

When you die, your legacy is the lives that you touched and the good that you did while you were here. Much more so than ticking off so many boxes on some arcane cosmic scavenger hunt. And honestly, I cannot in good conscience worship any creator who did (and still does) so many vile and reprehensible things to his own children. If God were a corporeal being, his address would be state prison if not a hole in the ground in Potter's Field.

1 vote

#1.19 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:05 PM EST

whatthetruth52

When you die, you die. There is no heaven, no hell. You are gone. Since no one likes to think that what they were no longer goes on, we invented the notion of heaven where we would live in splendor after a hard life. Then religion came in and said well if you don't do what my "god" says then you will not live a life of splendor but instead will burn in fire for all eternity. good way to control the masses.

3 votes

#1.20 - Thu Feb 23, 2012 7:32 AM EST

Nobody knows, now do they? This is the great mystery. Some of the human race have had to construct magnificent myths to assuage them and allay their fear of death. Me? I follow my grandmother's advice: Party 'til you drop!

4 votes

#1.21 - Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:45 AM EST

knightofdespair

If God were a corporeal being, his address would be state prison if not a hole in the ground in Potter's Field.

Not really, he owns all the real estate, resources, and creatures, and most laws would recognize that as owner he can do what he pleases with it.

1 vote

#1.22 - Thu Feb 23, 2012 2:00 PM EST

I am a bastard child and therefore, according to the bible, (old testament), I nor 6 or 7 generations after me will ever enter the kingdom of god.

12 votes

#2 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:13 AM EST

MWeaver

Don't sweat it, hell is where all the cool people are gonna be anyways.

I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints
the sinners are much more fun...

11 votes

#2.1 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:58 AM EST

O I'm not sweating it, at least when hell freezes over, I will know when the toronto maple leafs will have won the stanley cup. :P

5 votes

#2.2 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:02 PM EST

I was told by a catholic priest when I was in 1st grade that I deserved to die for my birth was profane, and then I was going to suffer for eternity in hell. I told that priest to f**k off, and that was the first time my mom washed my mouth with soap.

8 votes

#2.3 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:40 PM EST

I would like to thank the ministers in my life for turning me against christianity with attitudes like that.

6 votes

#2.4 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:51 PM EST

MWeaver

I was told by a catholic priest when I was in 1st grade that I deserved to die for my birth was profane

Give him a break, he was probably just flirting with you. Did he end it with, "Well, since we're going to hell anyways..."

11 votes

#2.5 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:54 PM EST

Texasguy01

Wrong it is only the Temple in the old Testament.

#2.6 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 1:07 PM EST

Soph0571

I told that priest to f**k off,

Hahaha. Bet he blinked first

5 votes

#2.7 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 1:55 PM EST

Marquis de Laffayette

I told that priest to f**k off, and that was the first time my mom washed my mouth with soap.

My mom used that same punishment when I was a kid. I don't know about you, but as for me... didn't @!$%#ing work.

I nor 6 or 7 generations after me will ever enter the kingdom of god.

I like how that works. But I gotta wonder if it compounds or just starts over for every bastard. Like if a bastard had a bastard, would it be 7 generations after that bastard, or would it be 13 generations?

7 votes

#2.8 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 2:45 PM EST

I never bothered to ask, because my minister would never actually be there just to answer questions like that. He would only pontificate about bull@!$%# like that. Hence I am not a christian.

8 votes

#2.9 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 2:51 PM EST

nope it didnt work hahahaha, I still cuss like no tomorrow.

hahaha no, the priest didnt molest me, thank nature. But he did make me depressed for a while.

Actually the incident, and the other BS from the catholic church only turned me away from catholic faith, what turned me against the abrahamic religions is the anti-gay bigotry, the hypocrisy, the lies, and well actually reading the buybull.

1 vote

#2.10 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 3:53 PM EST

Miss_Diagnosed

If God is a statistician and good at playing numbers he might make it a muliplier and your poor bastard kid would be cast out for 49 generations... or if he was really sadistic (the side that made the devil and all...) he could exponent the bastard curse into 823543 generations...

At that point... does it matter? Sounds like Heaven would be full eh?

1 vote

#2.11 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 4:07 PM EST

I am a bastard child and therefore, according to the bible, (old testament), I nor 6 or 7 generations after me will ever enter the kingdom of god.

Let's define "bastard" according to the Hebrew original manuscripts...

word 4464 mamzer mam-zare' from an unused root meaning to alienate; a mongrel, i.e. born of a Jewish father and a heathen mother:--bastard.

Let's define "heathen" according to the Hebrew original manuscripts...

word 1471 gowy go'-ee rarely (shortened) goy {go'-ee}; apparently from the same root as 1465 (in the sense of massing); a foreign nation; hence, a Gentile; also (figuratively) a troop of animals, or a flight of locusts:--Gentile, heathen, nation, people.

Heathen/Gentile are for the most interchangeable as used in the Hebrew manuscripts but carry a different meaning depending on the context. As used in Deuteronomy 23:2 "bastard" is specifically speaking of the offspring born as a result of a union between a Jewish father (born of the tribe/direct seedline of Juda) and a heathen mother (one who does not believe in the God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob). Heathen/Gentile denotes those in the OT who followed different gods or who worshipped idols such as baal worshippers or moabites who liked to burn their offspring in fire. God forbid these unions because "heathens/gentiles" held different beliefs then those born of Juda and like He said He's a jealous God not desiring any to worship any other gods.

One needs to go to Exodus 20:5-6 to gain a clearer understanding of what is being said:

20-5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous GOD, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that HATE ME;

20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love ME, and keep MY commandments.

Therefore when a mamzer/mamzare "bastard" as defined in the Hebrew manuscripts loves God and keep His commandments (OT) and/or accept God's mercy and grace through Jesus Christ by repenting of "sins" (NT) they are forgiven just like anyone else and are welcome in God's congregation.

Only those individuals who continue to "hate" deny God are subject to this fate as declared in Deuteronomy 23:2 and it can be longer then the tenth generation as long as that individual in whatever generation "hates" denies God.

Think about it, if one "hates" God, they aren't part of God's congregation by choice so chances are, they aren't busting any grapes to be a part of God's congregation anyway?However, at anytime an individual in any of the generations "offspring" have a change of heart, and choose to love God, they are no longer separated from God by their own choice.

God's plan/purpose for all He created is ALL inclusive when one rightly divide His word of truth. I pray this helps "whosoever" with wisdom, knowledge and understanding according to God's will.

3 votes

#2.12 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 4:57 PM EST

I don't hate god, if there is one, I just want to live my life the way I want to and not be subservient to a book written by man thousands of years ago and having been mistranslated many times.

Sorry, but if I am to be judged when I die (I doubt that I will be but hey that is an if, not a when) then I want it to be based on my life, not my blind devotion to some book that can be interpreted by some ignorant twats to mean whatever they want. And if this so called god is going to judge me based on that, well then fine send me to hell, I don't give a @!$%#.

3 votes

#2.13 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 5:02 PM EST

I don't hate god, if there is one, I just want to live my life the way I want to and not be subservient to a book written by man thousands of years ago and having been mistranslated many times.

I believe this is exactly what you are doing correct? If so, whatever is written in the Holy Bible has no affect on you in the way you live your life, right? You have made your choice, not an issue.

Sorry, but if I am to be judged when I die (I doubt that I will be but hey that is an if, not a when) then I want it to be based on my life...

And if this so called god is going to judge me based on that, well then fine send me to hell, I don't give a @!$%#.

Hell is most likely not what you think it is Jonathan, but you are correct, it is our life "actions" that God will use to judge us all so you see, there's no need for you to be sorry, you will get exactly what you want which is to be judged based on your life "your actions"?

1 vote

#2.14 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 5:38 PM EST

Peace,

I don't believe in god, and no matter how many times you portray god as a person, it won't change that.

4 votes

#2.15 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 5:54 PM EST

Hi Jonathan,

Peace,

I don't believe in god, and no matter how many times you portray god as a person, it won't change that.

Sorry Jonathan, I understand, not a problem; I responded based on your comment regarding your being a "bastard" as many do not know what a "bastard" is according to the original Hebrew manuscripts, and a many a child because of misinterpretations/false teachings have and continue to suffer because of it so please do understand that what I share based on what is written isn't just for you.

Take care!

1 vote

#2.16 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:50 PM EST

in the first one that you described, I fit the bill, as well as the modern interpretation of it.

2 votes

#2.17 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:55 PM EST

Im a heathen and damn proud of it. If heaven is full of those who follow the bible as if it is truth, then I dont want to go to heaven, talking about boring, and not to mention irritating. I really dont want to be stuck for eternity with a bunch of misogynistic, anti-gay, holier-than-thous. *shudders* At least that's the impression I got the whole time I was enslaved to xtianity.

3 votes

#2.18 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:08 PM EST

Larry Marvin

I denied the Holy Spirit, I'm going to Hell. Save me a seat by the lake of fire.

4 votes

#3 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:32 AM EST

sure, no problem, Ill bring the marshmallows, hotdogs, and beer :)

1 vote

#3.1 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:08 PM EST

Tyler Durden-330839

See you in Hell!!!!

Smiles!!!

6 votes

#4 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:42 AM EST

greg81082-4115372

I am going to Philip Jose Farmer's "River World" where I'll meet everybody who ever lived. There will be free socialist food by the river.

2 votes

#5 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:51 AM EST

JustenO

Nobody knows what's next until we die, and then you can't even tell anyone your secret.

Frankly, I hope the Buddists got it right. maybe I can get re-up'd as a Elephant.

2 votes

#6 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:58 AM EST

Spooky Boyfriend

Your post-death experience will be just like your pre-birth experience.

4 votes

#6.1 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:58 PM EST

Connie says

Your post-death experience will be just like your pre-birth experience.

that is pretty profound....never thought of it like that....(good post)

5 votes

#6.2 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 3:48 PM EST

samenslow

There was an Islamist, The Mulla Nashurdin, who when asked when a candle was blown out, "Where did the light go?"

He answered, "Tell me from where it came, and I will tell you where it went."

4 votes

#6.3 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:47 PM EST

"Where did the light go?"

The light went out... LOL!

1 vote

#6.4 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:53 PM EST

the blowing out of the flame ended the proper fuel to air mixture for proper combustion, therefore the flame does not continue to exist, the consumption of the energy by the wax(fuel), and air now ceased, no longer emits the protons of light, therefore the light no longer exists.

dull, boring....yeah, but true

1 vote

#6.5 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:13 PM EST

Spike Eng2

I could never get past Noah's Ark .

5 votes

#7 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:11 PM EST

Marquis de Laffayette

I'm the same way. As a story, there really isn't a moral. Except that if you're bad, god will destroy you mercilessly. And as an account of a real event, it's unbelievably unrealistic.

5 votes

#7.1 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:21 PM EST

going up

Well, that is a fair question Soph. The Bible simply says All who repent of sin and ask to be saved in the name of Jesus will be saved. I believe if you don't read the Bible, and school yourself on what Jesus said, you'll be confused and worship other idols, and it won't turn out good.

Obviously different races and cultures will have different names for Jesus-I believe God knows their hearts, and if they are his or not. It's a heart thing all the way - pretty fair I think.

I don't understand a lot of the Bible, but the parts I can understand ring true to me.

Have a good one-enjoyed this article.

#8 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:18 PM EST

Marquis de Laffayette

If there is both a god and a heaven, then it should be those who live according to their own judgment. Hypocrites who make excuses for themselves, when they would want the book thrown at someone else in the same situation, are the only ones who shouldn't make the cut. It's the only way to make things fair, since there really isn't an objective set of rules to judge mankind on.

I can't accept the idea of an eternal hell, however. No one deserves that.

3 votes

#9 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:19 PM EST

samenslow

Amazing that everyone wants to go to a place they cannot describe or know how their existence will be manifested. But then that is a lie. Except for a few very depressed people, I have never met anyone in a hurry to get to this paradise.

A mess of fat, little cherubs playing harps while riding on clouds. EEEEECH! I will go back to reading Shaw's Don Juan in Hell.

4 votes

#10 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:23 PM EST

rls8r

samenslow - After that, you may want to peek into Twain's Letters from the Earth - especially Letter II, where Satan (an archangel who has to spend a 'timeout' on Earth after being sarcastic to God) writes to Gabriel and Michael (archangels back in Heaven) describing what humans think Heaven is like.

4 votes

#10.1 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 1:09 PM EST

willard

It is interesting to me that the book really never gets into 'details' of either place. If these places exist, and I don't believe it, the book they use has no details worth mentioning. Same abstract or metaphorical stuff that is present thruout. As an insurance policy, there are no lines to read between. In fact, there are no lines with abundant info at all.

When you die - you die. Perhaps the from dust to dust is one of the most important bits one can gain from the book (Gen 3:19)

1 vote

#11 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:24 PM EST

Luther28

The entire notion of a heaven and hell is essentially another mechanism to keep the masses under control. Live a noble and charitable life and the gates of heaven await you, live a life such as I have at times and well, break out the marshmallows and wienies. Personally I believe the Buddhists have it right, mind your own business, do no harm and perhaps you might break the wheel of life. But in the end we are all food for the worms.

3 votes

#12 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:25 PM EST

belle42

Heaven is divided into neighborhoods, that way the Catholics don't see the Hindus who are in Heaven, and the Muslims don't see the Buddhists that are in Heaven. No one religion has a monopoly on God/Allah/Zeus/Odin, so no one gets to close the door on the others, they just enter through different gates!

Hell -- well some religions believe the mortal world is the actual hell, and right now I'm tending to believe them!

7 votes

#13 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:31 PM EST

knightofdespair

Yeah many days I can't picture a worse hell than this world.

6 votes

#13.1 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 1:30 PM EST

euterpe-1641499

Great comment, belle.

There's a saying in Hinduism: God is a pond in the middle of a forest. Many paths lead to that pond. It doesn't matter which path you take - hew your own if you want; but the goal is to reach the pond. I'm hewing my own, since I believe organized religion serves little purpose, other than to control us.

5 votes

#13.2 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 6:06 PM EST

samenslow

The word Sufi, among whose members were the poets Rumi and Omar Khayyam, can be translated as "Path". We all have our own paths to God. Sufism developed in reaction to the Taliban type of islam practiced in Afghanistan and Pakistan (some things do not change).

Sufi also means "movement during prayer". Rumi founded the Mevlevi Sufi who include "The Whirling Dervishes" One of his sayings, "We rarely hear the inward music, be we're all dancing to it nevertheless."

Of course Omar Khayyam suggested we live our lives here and now.

"Come, fill the cup, and in the Fire of Spring

The Winter Grament of Repentance fling:

The bird of Time has but a little way to fly...

And Lo! The bird is on the wing.

"Ah, my Beloved, fill the Cup that clears

TO-DAY of past Regrets and Future Fears

To-Morrow?...Why, To-morrow I may be

Myself with Yesterday's Sev'n Thousand Years."

3 votes

#13.3 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:02 PM EST

euterpe-1641499

Thanks for sharing that sam!

3 votes

#13.4 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:15 PM EST

to me the only version of hell I can imagine is either living in a theocracy. Life here in the US may not be perfect may seem bad at times, but it isnt hell either. Try being a woman, or gay in iran, or a starving child in africa, then one will know hell. IMO tho.

4 votes

#13.5 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:19 PM EST

Sam, thank you! It's been decades since I've read Khayyam. So many people do not realize that there are more sects in Islam than the two we most hear about, and the sufis were my first introduction to the religion. They always made the most sense to me.

And, euterpe, there is also a Hindu saying similar, but with a mountain - and many roads leading to the top. When christian missionaries first arrived in India, they would give crosses to families, explaining about christ. When they would return to the house, they would find the cross on the heart next to all the other gods that family worshipped and would freak out. The revealed religions want to be the only religion; but it will never work that way.

3 votes

#13.6 - Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:54 AM EST

euterpe-1641499

they would give crosses to families, explaining about christ. When they would return to the house, they would find the cross on the heart next to all the other gods that family worshipped and would freak out.

Wow! That's amazing - and I can totally see how this would happen. Hinduism is the last surviving mythology. The entire way of thinking is different from religions based on edicts. Also, Hindus believe all religions deserve to exist equally. So, they don't differentiate between the ways of worship: they focus more on where that worship comes from, the heart.

A quick story: I don't know if I told you RBW, but my parents just spent the month of December with us. Now at my house - remember, I've been married for almost 24 years to a Lutheran - I have many Hindu idols, Buddhas, and also beautiful bibles, some quite old. I love them and they give me peace. But being who I am, I decorate with them - displaying them all over the house. My mom of course has her altar at home. I am a Hindu Brahmin. And she's been at my house a million times, but being that it was Christmastime, and I also had a nativity on my hall table, it struck her all at once. She saw religion the way I saw it. And she loved the way I incorporated it all to suit me. And that is a perfect example of how a Hindu thinks.

One more thing - notice I said I am a Hindu Brahmin. Hinduism is distinctive in that you cannot convert to it. The religion is based on birth. You may seek knowledge from a guru and do what that guru tells you to do, you may choose to connect to the Lord through the trials of yoga or fasting or pilgrimage, all that is acceptable. But you cannot become a Hindu if aren't born one.

3 votes

#13.7 - Thu Feb 23, 2012 11:08 AM EST

I do know what you meant by Brahmin, euterpe. And pretty much, I can't stop being Jewish, no matter that I walk the eight-fold path nor that I honor the sabbats nor that I can recite the Rig Veda nor that I've been baptized. It all just doesn't matter; I'm Jewish. Strange world of religion, isn't it?

I like adding the christian things into your religious world view. It is a perfect way to look at the other side, IMO. :-)

2 votes

#13.8 - Thu Feb 23, 2012 3:47 PM EST

UNA_Lion

Let's see what Jesus said:

John 14

6 Jesus told him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me. 7 If you had really known me, you would know who my Father is. From now on, you do know him and have seen him!”

That is pretty descriptive, and exclusive. But Jesus said more:

Matthew 7

13 “You can enter God’s Kingdom only through the narrow gate. The highway to hell is broad, and its gate is wide for the many who choose that way. 14 But the gateway to life is very narrow and the road is difficult, and only a few ever find it.

Finally, we can look at what Jesus said that is the basis of our faith in Christ:

John 3

16 “For God loved the world so much that he gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life. 17 God sent his Son into the world not to judge the world, but to save the world through him.

18 “There is no judgment against anyone who believes in him. But anyone who does not believe in him has already been judged for not believing in God’s one and only Son. 19 And the judgment is based on this fact: God’s light came into the world, but people loved the darkness more than the light, for their actions were evil. 20 All who do evil hate the light and refuse to go near it for fear their sins will be exposed. 21 But those who do what is right come to the light so others can see that they are doing what God wants.”

5 votes

#14 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 1:04 PM EST